Developing and Managing a Successful Internship Program

Unknown Speaker 12:16
All right, I think we should probably begin. Let's see. I think my co presenter shall share her screen we have a slide deck to share is that good? Yeah. Okay, so welcome to developing and managing a successful internship program. Your our nCn 2021 session so we're very happy to have you all here. And we hope this will be kind of a collaborative session where we share some perspectives from our side and then we work together to co create some new knowledge as we go through the presentation to the end. So let's introduce ourselves. So you can have the next slide. So my name is Caroline Culbert. I've been working in museums for a little bit now. A little more than 13 years. I've been supervising interns for a long time, and I actually started out as an intern in the museum world. So I got my first gig that way, so I'm very passionate about making these opportunities available. I'm currently the director of communication engagement at the guns gallery at Kenyon College. So I help supervise a very large team of undergraduate interns about 60 a year we hire, and they are all paid internships. At our gallery and they work in every facet of museum work with us. So I'd like to give a visual description of myself. I'm a middle aged white woman with pretty light skin. I have long dark hair, that's kind of curly. I wear glasses, and I have a dark dress on and just to give you a little window into my personality, I feel I may have missed an opportunity by not wearing something Halloween themed so and I am presenting from the village of gambir in central Ohio, and I would like to make a land acknowledgement since I am actually at Kenyon College right now. Kenyon College acknowledges that the land on which we live, work, celebrate and heal of the ancestral homelands of the Miami so will not be the one to dote and the shoni peoples, among others. The dist disputed treaty of Greenville from 1795 and the forced removal of indigenous peoples from this region allowed for the founding of the college in the early 1800s. As a community we're committed to confronting this dark past while also embracing through education and outreach than MANY indigenous communities that thrive in Ohio. So I will turn it over to my co presenter.

Unknown Speaker 15:30
Hi, good. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us I'm in do my pronouns as she heard, I'm just gonna give you a visual description of myself first. I am in my 30s I'm of South Asian descent. I have black hair, shoulder length brown eyes, I wear glasses and today I'm wearing a white blouse a little bit before I continue and tell you a little bit about me and just want to give you give a land acknowledgement. I speak to you today from Toronto and Toronto, the traditional territory of MANY nations, including the Mississauga the credit, the Anishinabek, the Chippewa, the hood, nashoni and the Wendat people and is now home to MANY diverse First Nations, Inuit and maytee people. A little bit about me, I completed my post graduation in 2012 in history, and I returned to education in the fall of 2020. I just graduated from Humber colleges, arts administration and Cultural Management Program. In fact, I just received my graduate certificate this morning. And part of the course was a 420 hour requirement for MANY hours of internship. spread out over two semesters I completed for 20 hours in the form of four internships over the last six months, one of which translated into a part time job and the other one in the form of a contract gig. Okay, so that's a little bit about me over to your Caroline.

Unknown Speaker 17:03
All right. Well, I think we should dig right into internships. So this is kind of a cool presentation if you ask me because we've got like the dynamic duo here of like, Intern Supervisor, an intern, so we get to see like success from both sides because really, you can get a lot of professional development from either way. Really, if you if you think about it, so I just want to share a little plan for this session. So these are the kind of things that we're going to do as we go through our hour together. So we're going to think about some ideas for internships. We're going to learn a little bit about internships as they exist now, since not all of us have experience in internships that are like induced. And so we're also going to learn about like internship types and general categories as you start thinking about what your program will will do. We're also going to think about project based learning because a lot of the new internship characteristics really pull from this, this model, we're gonna learn about how to plan for success by being ready for a bumpy road possibly. We're gonna think about some examples. And then we're gonna circle back maybe to some back and forth some ideas that you generate, and then we help flesh out. So and then we'll have time for questions and comments. So that's what we're going to do today. All right, so we do have a Google Doc that we've set up, just in case anybody wants to share what they're thinking about as far as projects. So feel free to add your info in here. Don't feel like you have to you can also share on the chat or share verbally if you'd like I'm going to put the Google doc info in the chat so everyone can see that. And then you know, just think about what you are doing in your work. Consider different projects you've always wanted to tackle but I've never had the time. Think about those big cross departmental projects that are hard to get going. Having a dedicated person on that project is sometimes the way to kickstart it. And also internship projects. are a great way to do some rapid prototyping with new and different projects that you'd really like to roll out at your institution. But you want to make sure there's a proof of concept before you go in a really big push. Next slide. And feel free to add anything in there at any time. You don't have to do it now. But as things come to you later, you can do it then as well. So I'm going to hand it over to Indu who's going to let us know about some of her recent experiences.

Unknown Speaker 20:06
So I'm guessing it's been a while since some of you were interns. Let's take a look at what it looks like right now. So it's no longer just taking coffee orders or making copies or just passive observation. Nowadays, most college courses come with internship requirements as part of the course credits. And it's quite common for organizations to team up with educational institutions, it turns out to be mutually beneficial for them as well as the interns and students. So my first internship as part of this course was with Lakeshore grounds, interpretive center, which is a fantastic local museum was part of Humber College and is associated with the campus as well. So that was a great experience and it was a great way to, to kind of put what I've been learning what I'd been doing learning in classes into actual tangible work. So accumulating experience through internships, internships, it's become a currency of sorts to pave the way for the next step, or next steps in your career. And it's, like I said, it's a great way to put to use what you're learning in a real world setting with real responsibilities and targets. But there's also a little bit of leeway for error, because it's still a learning experience. I've been fortunate enough to have work with amazing supervisors who have mentored me, well shout out to Victoria, she's here today. She encouraged me to be part of this conference. So yeah, that's a great example of how internships really work out. And internships also useful for smaller organizations. You know, testing out larger teams a bigger project and to see how to work and expand in what direction and sort of like a beta testing for for new things for bigger things. So we did a short survey, and just to see what internships look like in the past year, our sample size was about 20. Participants aged between 20 to 53. So newcomers, college, freshers juniors, returning students like myself over the age of 30 a pretty diverse bunch from visual arts, museums, film and television, music and theatre backgrounds. And all 20 participants have had to have completed internships in the last year. anywhere between one to four and the hours put in range between five to 40 hours per week, depending upon the course, layout and requirements from anywhere between eight to 16 weeks. In my case for the first the internship I worked on 11 hours for I believe it was eight weeks it six to eight weeks. And to complete the remaining hours. I worked up to 30 hours a week for another 12 weeks. So that's what it looked like in the past year. quick look at some stats. So based on the information given to us by survey participants, you can see that a good chunk of internships were paid some some exam, students had a bit of both on paid and paid. Also considering the pandemic. There's also a there was also a big chunk of it being virtual and hybrid. These pie charts don't coincide but they most certainly correlate because you can see that the trend is towards paid and hybrid paid and hybrid kind of internship. And I think that that really works out and opens up more opportunities. Like in my case, I was also able to do an internship with a smaller Museum in Alberta, which wouldn't have been possible had it if it weren't virtual. So it's there's a lot happening here and it's a lot a lot of possibilities and opportunities to be explored here. So a look at what skills internships have helped us with. Okay, so as you can see a wide range of hard skills from technical skills

Unknown Speaker 24:47
to technological, digital and virtual to research an administrator. In my case, I I learned how to use a virtual exhibit exhibition platform conference matrix. I helped curate and design an exhibit with over 80 plus participants, which was really exciting and very fun. At the same time we heard a smaller version of the exhibit with pandemic rules in place on site so I did a little bit of hands on in word like virtually as well as in person. So that was interesting. Also, back and website development, enough research and content creation skills, a lot of that so basically, the four internships covered a wide range of these skills, and of course, soft skills. It wasn't easy. Balancing three internships at the same time. So a lot of time management, a lot of deadlines to be met, making sure communications top notch, everything is put out there clearly. So that's a general look at what fellow participants as well as well as myself. What we've learned over our internships and what the interns have to say of course, the positives being you're able to network, hands on experience. You go out there in the real world you trying out what you've learned, that's great officers have been very fortunate to have great mentorship to be guided and supported. Even after the internships have gotten over. The not so great part, of course is you know, unpaid internships it still happens but it's it's a huge obstacle because students and interns also have to pay bills, we got fees to pay college loans. But to a more specific thing. A feedback or a common comment that I've received from other classmates and interns is that sometimes internships can be really vague, without a specific project or you know, outlined for you your duties and the role that you play is that's not outlined, well. It's unclear. So you're not sure what responsibility you have what you're supposed to do. And it's complicated further, especially in a virtual setting so you don't meet your supervisor face to face everyday. Instead, it could be a weekly meeting, sometimes, but more than 20 minutes, it leaves a lot of things unsure, uncertain, so not really sure where you're headed that way or what you're learning in that experience. Disconnected communication. Sometimes you're not sure who the supervisor is, what the chain of command is, who you should be reporting to for certain tasks. Another another complication because of the last the past pandemic setting has been the inability to to socialize, you know, properly because especially in the arts and culture, industry, socializing and networking is such a huge part of career development. And virtually there's only so much that you can achieve it it's not organic as it could be in person. And so, what would enter, what would interns like in terms of an internship? Well, a reliable tried and tested structure, project based so it's, it's good to be part of an organization where there's a template in place, so the details of the project can change and it is easily adaptable. with room for the intern to sort of customize, in the sense that I remember in one of my internships at the first meeting, it was like, what this is what you have to do, but also what would you like to add to it so that you can build on your portfolio, which I felt was a great way to kickstart an internship and learn so much as I went through it.

Unknown Speaker 29:05
Another another requirement, I would say would be to have reviews and assessment from the start the middle and the end. Because halfway through if you feel like you're not on the right track, and you speak to your supervisor, and they do an assessment and you see how you can you no alternate and you know, tweak it a little bit and then you're back on track. So that's a great way to, you know, again, have a better internship experience. And, of course, more internships built to accommodate more equity, diversity and inclusivity mandates for bipoc LGBTQ plus and even older students like myself. Basically, what we're trying to say is that internships should be designed keeping in mind that the world is changing. It's not just the stereotypical fresh out of college 20 year old was looking for internships now. Several people are looking for mid career changes, taking up education after a break, sometimes shifting their niche so it's always good to keep all those nuances in mind.

Unknown Speaker 30:23
Yeah, absolutely. So I think Indu has really set out how expansive the internship kind of marketplace is right now. And how paid internships and project based internships are starting to in a way replace some of those entry level positions that we've always had as a stepping stone in kind of the museum world. And so if you know as people in museum tech, and as, you know, people working in museums, we can make that transition for those who need equity, inclusion, diversity, who need a little support. We can make that easier just by planning our internships and being really mindful of what we're putting in place. So if we kind of condense all of that down into sort of different types of internships that you you can choose from essentially like a menu. You have the compensation piece, which is, I think, very important to to equity, you know, and making available if we want to have a diverse workforce, we have to kind of help that along and do our part and this is one of those real things that you can actually take an action. You know, instead of just talking the talk, you can walk the walk. So you can pay those interns for their work and make sure that they know they're valued in that way. The different internships I mean, we're talking about all the way from high school students to like Indu said postgraduate level professionals who are looking for a second career. Oftentimes internships now are we're looking at like a semester long or a summer internship, something that's at least six weeks, all the way to a year long. session. And then also when you're planning as a, you know, playing or have an internship program. You can plan for an ongoing series of internships or you can plan for a group of interns to come in together and work collaboratively or a single intern. working on one project with you kind of one on one. So and then as Indu said, The Work focus is much more of discrete project, instead of just sort of whatever comes up in the office so that puts an onus on supervisors and professionals to really play plan out the experience that you want to your interns to have. So we can go to the next slide.

Unknown Speaker 33:17
Alright, so one thing that will help us a lot with our planning is project based learning. And I think that project based learning can inform and help you create a lot of the things that Indu has mentioned that interns are really looking for in a quality internship program. So project based learning is a methodology that was actually developed for K through 12 students, and it was centered around the idea that a project can give students something to have pointed in sustained effort in investigation and responding to real world questions and concerns over an end to end experience. So it's almost actually like an internship for little students so we can flip that back into our professional work. And really make sure that the internship programs that we're working on and the projects that we are assigning to interns actually have that start to finish experience, that they're built on the expectation that the work they're doing is going to be public facing and that they're actually going to have to work out some concerns and make choices on their own. So it really actually creates a sense of agency and ownership within the internship experience. And it actually does allow for some of that flexibility that Indu said, I mean, it seems very concrete and that you're locked into a certain project. But actually, if you keep up with this methodology, it allows for kind of like mid project, twists and turns as research and investigate and changes. So we can move on to the next slide. All right, so sounds like a great model, right? But, but there are some limitations and some things that you need to keep in mind if you do want to apply this model to an insurance ship at your institution. These project based learning models are really meant to give students and interns agency so that means that sometimes they're going to make decisions that you wouldn't make but when you think about it, you are in a different place in your career than your internet's whether they're going to go into museum tech or whether they're going to go into another type of cultural institution or whether they're going to go on to a completely different work. In their lives. They need the ability to try it out. And that's actually something that's really hard to do. And it's actually one of those things that you learn and that makes you a better supervisor is that you need to prepare you need to have meetings and you need to have constant communication. So this is something that you're going to have to put effort into. It's going to make the work load a little bigger for you, but it's also going to really enrich your experience and your interns experience. And I think this really moves into the the really hard stuff is to deal with the resisting the temptation to just fix it. Because it really is this sense of discomfort especially if you can see something that you know maybe isn't gonna work out. But it's really important to let your intern learn that as they're going through their experience. So I think Indu can actually talk to that a little bit from her own experience in in internships.

Unknown Speaker 37:08
Sure, yeah. So as part of one of my internships, my role was required that I write exhibit and panel text for a museum. And it's difficult when you come from an academic background sometimes to condense and make the language more accessible and, you know, easy to read. And I kept getting getting stuck at that, but my supervisor refused to, you know, give me the easy way out and so that, you know, Hey, okay, fine. You know what, you've got this stuff. Let me edit it out for you. Now, she insisted that I take a week and actually sit down and get to it myself because that's the only way I learn. And I mean, it was something that she could have done in 30 minutes or an hour, but she gave me that time to learn and make mistakes and learn from that. And I think that that was really helpful and something that I will keep with me and you know, use my next experience.

Unknown Speaker 38:02
Yeah, that's wonderful. I think that's such a generous thing. Right? Because of that discomfort level, and you know, you can she could have just said, oh, yeah, like you said, rewritten that in 30 minutes, but it was important to let you have that experience to wait it out. And let things play out. So I just think that that is lovely. I I try to live up to that as much as I can, but it is a battle. So alright, we can move on. Okay, so so maybe we've convinced you that you want to start a new internship program or you want to reimagine an existing one or maybe you've been given an internship program or if you're at a large institution. So what is informed you that you will have a summer intern and so any of these means that you may be just starting out and you need a place to start. And I'm sure you've gathered from our conversation so far that that this is a huge and complex process, and it's always changing because it's a collaboration. And so you can start in a lot of different places. So I wanted to kind of give everybody some ideas about where they could start. So one of the best things you can do is do something like come to this session, or talk to someone in your institution. Or maybe someone in your community. So starting conversations ahead of time and learning from those around you. It seems kind of like a well of course I would do that. But sometimes it's hard to start that conversation. But after it does start I'm sure that you'll learn a lot because different institutions and different departments, different professionals will administer internships in a different way. And then of course, as we said, it's a collaboration so when you're working with an intern things will kind of progress in a different way. So lean on those around you. Including see I'm embedded in a higher ed institution, but local colleges and universities usually have huge internship programs and they support internships all around the community. So they may actually have a structure in place that you can then use to to jumpstart your own program. Then, you know, there's also things like very concrete things if you like to start in a very concrete place like Do you have a location for an intern to work in your building? Do you have computers? Do you have extra software licenses? These are may be things that you're going to have to build into a budget that you will need to have in place long before you actually have your intern hired and ready to go. You can do training sessions. This is a lot of leadership training. Having an intern is learning how to be a supervisor. And that can take you to the next step in your progression as a professional. And then of course there are going to be a lot of documents that are going to need to exist when you're ready to get started. And of course these will go through MANY iterations and drafts but their support documentation like timelines, job descriptions, paperwork for partners if you do partner with a university or college they may require site visits, they may require descriptions they may require you to speak to a professor or something like that. So be be ready for all of that stuff.

Unknown Speaker 41:52
All right, we can move to the next slide. Okay, so we wanted to preload with some examples of tech internships that that Indu and I have either worked on ourselves or help supervise or been in contact or done in some way. So there's lots of different end to end projects. That you can institute, things like podcasts, that's a good one to start with, especially if you're trying to find something that doesn't have a large chunk of training that comes in the very beginning. Because you're going to need to train your interns depending on their level of comfort on different tasks and different pieces of software and all that. So maybe something like editing a artist talk, or cleaning up the audio in a presentation by a musical group or dance group is not a place to start as far as a project based learning internship project that might have too much training involved for whatever time period you're looking at. However, I think that could also be a really great learning experience. If you make sure it's something assessable maybe an audio guide, do a little research and see what kind of tools very accessible tools are available. Maybe your institutions always wanted to do an audio guide but never had time. Right? That happens a lot interpretive materials tend to kind of fall by the wayside, sometimes getting an exhibition off at least in in the art museums I've worked at. So this is a great way to support your visitors and have something really interesting for your student interns or graduate interns to do. So. Social media campaigns, another excellent thing. Personally, I did an art library. That's from my old school internship as a info information professional. So I did I did organize an art library and that was great internship for me. But there's all kinds of things that you could try out. So what were some of your your internships you do you shared one experience but you you've had MANY So what were some of the other things that you worked on?

Unknown Speaker 44:25
So, um, one of my internships required that I, you know, come up with a topic for an exhibit, and the mandate was that it had to, it had to be based on the neighborhood, the organization was situated in. So that was challenging because it's a tiny geographical area. And while they did have a particular site, in mind, coming up, I mean, researching and coming up with innovative ways to you know, talk about that little place that was challenging, but the best part was that I, they gave me the freedom to come up with a timeline that would work for me, and we would have structured meetings and discussion sessions and, you know, bounce ideas off each other. And even though it was all virtual, that that translated into a really great internship experience, as well as a good way to kickstart a project in this field. Yeah, that was one of one of my experiences. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 45:34
yeah. I love that. I love the collaborative nature of the planning that that went on initially, where you kind of learned together like where you're going, because you're not always going to know. So, yeah, and I think that that gives a lot of freedom. And and that's a little scary sometimes for both. It is

Unknown Speaker 45:57
tedious, because especially when there's a time when there's like a deadline involved, and you know, both parties have to show that this particular target has been achieved. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 46:08
Yeah, yeah. So I think that, you know, museums, by sort of definition are really allergic to failure. But, you know, tech is built on failure. So there's this real tension, you know, between trying out new projects and not working out, but learning a whole lot about what possibly would work instead. And then, you know, having to talk to leadership and saying, Oh, I'm sorry, this this you know, XYZ guide to whatever is not ready. You know, we were hoping we would get there and it's just not ready to go. So I think that there's a lot of trust there. That happens and you've got to build that. And one of those ways is showing the really great outcomes for your interns. So I think you've had a really great outcome, obviously, because you've been you've been hired by by one of your sites. I mean, I don't know if a higher you know, compliment that can come

Unknown Speaker 47:22
No, absolutely. Absolutely. And, yeah, the different kinds of I had diverse internship experience, because each internship was a different kind of role. And it's been great. Like I said, I mentioned Victoria, who's here right now. She she mentored me, and she pushed me out of my comfort zone to apply for this particular conference. So if it weren't for her, I wouldn't be here. So that's the kind of experience in terms of looking for, you know, that little push out of your comfort zone is required. And that and the trust that comes with it, you know,

Unknown Speaker 47:58
yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. Okay, let's, let's move on. We're getting close to question and answer time work together time. So we have some ideas maybe to apply our knowledge to, or we can, you know, have some question and answer session. You know, we're we're here to be to be your resources. So what you want to do

Unknown Speaker 48:40
so we can take some questions at this time, or, Carolyn, do you want to run through the resources and the examples here?

Unknown Speaker 48:48
Sure, sure. Yeah, we can run through we've got a like list of resources because you know, you can't go through all of this in one hour. So these are those session takeaways that we were hoping you'd kind of get an idea about new internships, what's happening, where you can go with project based learning how you can plan for success and kind of deal with that like anxiety. And then you know, where to go for more information. And I just saw a question come up in the chat. Yes. We will be sharing slides we had a question about if we're sharing slides. So we have some slides up currently in I think sketch is what we're using. And so we will update them with the new slides with all of the links to the materials. And I think Allison has a question.

Unknown Speaker 49:45
Thanks, Carlyn. This is a really helpful presentation. I'm actually here because I have an internship starting in the winter, but I need to prep for it. Now. Of course, that sort of situation where it's coming to us it's come I've been told I'm getting the students are the academic institution, we're connected with them sets up public history program placement. So students treated for credit and in my institution, we've had students with this program before and there's always a bottleneck where we try to do project based learning as much as possible. And I'm the exhibitions and education coordinator. This is an education focused placement. But the bottleneck is is typically that it's very difficult to get the work of that students placement, available online because we have a we have one website coordinator and I work for a government institution. So approvals and translation into French, somebody in Toronto is not possible in a timely fashion. So in the six months or four months that I have a student doing a placement with us, they're not actually able to see the fruits of their labor go up. onto our website and get that satisfaction of the project being presented in public or duty evaluation. So I'm wondering, what would your advice be to really to sort of offer some sort of closure or make the other students if possible, kind of feel a sense of accomplishment where I can't offer that that really visible sense of accomplishment of having it be available to the public at the end of the placement in place of that what would you suggest?

Unknown Speaker 51:29
Yeah, that's that's really difficult, right? What we've had similar problem problems, but but in a little different fashion, like we've had interns work on publications, and the publication requirements back those projects up as well. So I totally feel your pain on that because you really do need that that kind of coming out that that presentation. And so actually, that's how we've we've dealt with it. We've had presentations of different works either in the gallery or online or through blog posts. And social media. So if the more standardized, like you said, like having it on, you know, on the website is not available, then we've we've actually brought students back to talk about their work or to do a presentation like like a gallery talk almost, to explain a little bit about their process and what they did. And then that allows them to have a, like a something on their portfolio. Because yeah, that's really hard. They they need something to kind of say about what they've been doing they and they're so usually that end cap works really well and then using the evaluator that's kind of part of the evaluation at the end. So then they have are able to reflect and then you hope, fingers crossed that things get published later. So that's one way to deal with that really difficult situation. Yeah. So I hope I answered your question. Alright, what is there? Are there any other questions? Anybody have a difficult situation. Internship ninjas here can help I know. We can talk a little bit about resources. There's a lot of really good resources out there. Different guides to starting a D AI, supporting Internship Program, talks, you know, documentation sources, how to develop your learning objectives based on where your maybe interns are coming from. So if they're like public history, and they need to learn certain, you know, objectives and how to build that into your internship program, and then actually achieve those. The employers guide to building an internship is actually really good and very easy, very approachable. Let's see we did share our internship handbook from the guns gallery. So it's a it's a short document, but it does have a job. Description at the very end, which is not super detailed. It doesn't really have to be for us because we have interns working in like seven different teams, doing different items and projects around the gallery. So there's a lot of flexibility and they kind of self identify as I want to work on XYZ team. So it's very open. And then we also have a template for a very simple project timeline that Indu shared from one of her experiences and this was a really nice piece. Because you can talk about this if you like and do but it was another one of those collaborative sort of experiences.

Unknown Speaker 55:20
Yeah. What I liked best about this is it was not a complicated Excel sheet. It was simply like a date, what we want to achieve and what we have and any other comments that you know have to be added or anything and it's just that so there's a very basic layer but it was super helpful because you know to go by that with your weekly check in to see if you're on track, what has to be changed. So it doesn't have to be something that is super technical or complex, just just something basic, like this really helps interns stay on track.

Unknown Speaker 55:54
And I really liked how it kind of set up like how you know that the initial part of the internship was going to be training and onboarding and kind of research. And then the actual project sort of content production kind of comes in the middle along with these kind of touch moments where you have meetings with your, your supervisor and you you really check in a lot and I think that's important when you're working on a project like this because like we've said, you may need to change direction. And you don't want to be in a situation where you feel like you're in a fix it moment. So the way to deal with that is to get things densified as quickly as possible. So that you can then talk it out and work it out that way instead of you know, just saying oh, well this audio guide is is not what we were looking for. And so it just goes into cold storage, which means that that nobody gets a lot out of it at all. So yeah. Oh wait. Are there any other questions any other things we can help you guys with? I've really enjoyed this time together. I'm glad that you guys were able to attend. I know it's really hard, since we're all still at work. So Indu is really excited to be at work right now. Congratulations again.

Unknown Speaker 57:34
Thank you. Thank you very much. And this is a great way to actually kickstart my real world experience. So yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for this. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 57:43
we've gotten very meta. We've had this is like learning on everybody's everybody's learning now. can feel it. So. Alright, well, yeah, um, thank you guys. Yeah, it seems like we we may be finished a little bit early. So

Unknown Speaker 58:03
I know we're right on time actually. Are we? Not bad?

Unknown Speaker 58:08
Hey, get back. See sometimes things work out accidentally. Yeah. So

Unknown Speaker 58:16
do you want to tell them where the slides will be available? Is it going to be sent to them or? Yes, I

Unknown Speaker 58:23
will put the slides on the schedule. listing for this session on the nCn virtual conference schedule. I'll also tweet them out on my Twitter, my very quiet Twitter account. So if anybody needs to get to them that way or wants to share them, you can grab them there too. So I think it's at Colbert 13 to Colbert 13. So somewhere on schedule two.

Unknown Speaker 59:00
Thank you so much, everyone for coming out. I really appreciate this.

Unknown Speaker 59:03
This is Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Thanks, everybody. I hope we helped you out. So