Unknown Speaker 00:00
This horrible experience, but like, also, it wasn't us.
Unknown Speaker 00:04
Which is, I should say, a good reason to know your counterpart at other organizations, other than nearby or not, because it's always nice to be able to call them up and say, Hey, before you comment.
Unknown Speaker 00:22
When I was up in New York Historical Society, we had that problem with a Museum of the City of New York, is just incessantly, people are incessantly confused. So one solution we came up with was, we were all, you know, very frequently posting about the same on this day kind of content on the same numeric history. So we just started collaborating on those. So we had similar content, but we would supplement so we wouldn't, you know, they would give information about you know, if it was an artist, birth, artist birthday or something, they would give information about the person and we would give information about the work. And then we would tell people learn more about this from the other person's page, to kind of have our content talk to each other. Our follows a few of our dedicated followers started picking up on it wasn't super successful, but at least it offered people two types of information even. And we reduced redundancy.
Unknown Speaker 01:11
And I like the idea of not trying to like cannibalize your audiences, because it's more of a like, Oh, if you like us, you'll probably also like them, because there is so much overlap between those two institutions. So I actually really liked them.
Unknown Speaker 01:25
I think maybe another type of branding issue that maybe isn't a dual museum situation is if a museum is expanding, or adding some new named part to their museum. So at my museum, we were adding a huge outdoor area that had a very large new name. So this like, really, literally called the Riley children's health sports legends experience, I'll just say it's ridiculous. Yeah. And it was branded all over the place, it literally looked like a second actual area, like a whole other, almost amusement park. But I think part of the issue is also having the Social Media Manager in the room, and a lot of these branding decisions are being made so that you're thinking of the the online user experience, and even the on site user experience, when you know, so there isn't confusion. So that, you know, when it comes down to it, and it's open, then the marketers aren't like, oh, wait, how are we talking about ourselves? Now? Are we? Are we now the museum and the sports experience? And then what is the overall campus called, you have to really be thinking about these things. And often it's those of us online who are thinking of geotags and how we articulate ourselves in a tweet that can really think about things differently. So yeah, I think that's just another way that if we all don't maybe have a counterpart right across the hall that maybe like additions, like that might be another issue some of us have come up on so.
Unknown Speaker 03:02
And I didn't even touch on this. But the Smithsonian American Art Museum has a satellite museum that doesn't include the name Smithsonian, or American art in it, it's called the Renwick Gallery. It's up until about five years ago was this sleepy little place that almost nobody went to? And then we had a couple of exhibitions that people loved, which is great, but a branding issue that we never thought we'd have. We now have, and it's up to leadership to figure it out. And in the meantime, I'm kind of in a holding pattern online. So I actually walked into the museum, the museum, which is what we call Sam and MPG one day and didn't realize that two people were there trying to go to the Renwick. And we're really confused. And it's not something that I think most of us were aware of. So
Unknown Speaker 04:00
yeah, I've Portrait Gallery is never accidentally tagged as Renwick actually. So that was like one thing that they did not confuse this with. But also working with Amy was really helpful because we had like, all of our print ephemera that ends up on the desks if it's something that's joint like we have conversation about, like whose logo goes first. And then we also have to have kind of standard social language for some of our joint programming that we do. And I think at one point, you were kind of leaning more towards using a handle, and we were leaning more towards using a hashtag. And it was because our handles were all different on different platforms. We're like, we don't want to put three different handles on here. And that all kind of forget their sound. Okay, but anyone else before we move on? We got a couple of minutes. So, takeaways. We recognize that not everybody has exactly that. issue but it sounds like plenty of people have something similar. So as much as we can, as social media managers advocate to other departments, that internal divisions, departments and silos don't mean anything to visitors. And our goal we, I don't know if you've noticed, but we didn't actually put our like analytics role of these campaigns in here. Our goal wasn't numbers or to go viral. It was basically to try a few things and build a case for more continued collaboration in the future.
Unknown Speaker 05:30
Yeah, we're trying to model collaboration for colleagues in some ways. It in some ways, I think it worked and others it just depends on who you're working with.
Unknown Speaker 05:43
Because we did have kind of some healthy and some unhealthy company competition between the two institutions. And yeah, I think overall, we think it was pretty successful. It was so a lot of fun. It was a bright spot in my job and a bright spot on Twitter. I feel like so we actually, if anyone's interested we kind of want to do the museum movie marathon again this winter. I think we're thinking of like December 6, yes a kickoff. So if you're interested please join in or tweet us stay in touch. We always want to hear about other ways of Creative Problem Solving especially when it comes to social media and our online audiences thank you thank you guys so much for all my energy
Unknown Speaker 06:56
was a lot of like let the directors yell at each other have them in my room but I can bring them
Unknown Speaker 07:11
yeah yeah, no, I have them I actually wanted to I actually found so yeah I thank you so much for that. It saved me yesterday how do you how do you find that
Unknown Speaker 07:34
Well, I had to take a mental break otherwise I wouldn't have been prepared I still may not be here but what a fit in my version of this is I don't have this kind of I have this thing I have this thing that fits in this computer but
Unknown Speaker 08:23
I will get you on a stream I know you have a thunderbolt Thunderbolt perfect which is HDMI Thank you. I really do it seeking offerings people are seeking to hear what you do I'm Lucy actually not wanting to learn Brian. Gray thank you Josh. She wants to know Number one you guys all good? Thanks check check. I don't know which one this one is check check check. Check check check this out one Do you mind tossing this trash? Thank you so much Oh, I do want to water and I'm going to do kind of our lightning best right Oh yeah. Are you planning to have q&a at all? wireless mic and we want to give it a go There's nothing here but you're not to break short, and that's the end you want me to do this? The second? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 12:20
Okay. Welcome. I think we're all feeling a little burnt out right now and about you, but I feel like I've been dragged behind a car. So forgive my parents. Um, my name is Katie Smith, and I'm from the state of North Carolina. So you'll probably notice my southern drawl. And this is a topic that we've heard a lot about since we've been here. I don't know how many of you have been in several sessions, I think this week and even at Ignite Talks that talk about burnout. I don't think this is necessarily something that's specific to museum industry, tech industry, I think it's society in general, we're all feeling it. And so I am joined today by some wonderful people. So over here we have Claire linear with the Metropolitan Museum of Art, who is part of the social social media manager. We have Linda Kelly, who is a consultant, and wonderful to hear from she's been doing a bit in the biz for a long time. And then we have Lucy, who also has been in the business for a long time and now consultant. And so how this Oh, yeah. And I'm Katie Smith, I'm the Chief. I'm the Chief Content Officer for the State of North Carolina, for the department that oversees natural cultural resources. And so how this came to be, was, there's a Facebook group for museums, social media managers. And so we I had posted a tweet and we'll show you that tweet in a second that someone had tweeted about mental health and social media managers. And I think this is something that's kind of whispered about but doesn't come up often. And a lot of this came off of the article that came out about the people who worked for Facebook and had to preview content that comes in and how it really messes with you, like, hitting inundated with this stuff all day being on 24/7. And so you kind of start feeling just overwhelmed on so many levels. So we wanted to say a disclaimer, we are not mental health professionals. So what we're going to talk about today is our perspective of burnout. And what that means to us because I think every person in here has a very unique perspective on burnout, what might be burnout for me may not be for you. And so that's something that we wanted to personalize. So we may repeat some things, but I think it's worth repeating because I think it helps for everyone to hear that you're not alone in this and that it's things that we all feel and we can share. We decided not to do Chatham House rules on this session. However, some of the things we'll be talking about might be sensitive and like I said personal stories to us. And to share to share it all in this room today. So just keep that in the back of your mind. And so what I'm going to do now is pass the mic to Lucy who's going to kick off the session.
Unknown Speaker 15:13
Does this sound good? Okay? Whatever your unique quirks and personal cocktail of experience is your strength, your quirks, your strengths and shortcomings. Maybe we are all susceptible to burnout, creative types, athletes, cos, computer programmers, analysts, artists, etc. In this world of information overload, it is common and easy to get overwhelmed and burnout. So what is burnout, I'll let you read the following slides with some quotes from articles that we read during our research, but I'm not going to read everything out loud, because I'm also going to concurrently share my own experience with burnout with you. And in preparing for this presentation and doing some the reading and thinking about the topic, I realized that I've experienced burnout more than once. And I might be a little burned out right now. So I started my career at the Metropolitan Museum in 2009. And then I moved over, I worked there for five years and moved to LACMA and LACMA for two years in house. And I was enticed away to an agency that was offering me more competitive pay a higher title. And they had for profit clients, including Art Basel. And pretty quickly, in my experience with that agency, there was a lot of pressure, a lot of internal factors and several external factors going on in my personal life that started to make me feel like it wasn't the right decision, and that I made a mistake. And then I convinced myself that I would never work in museums again, and I ruined my career. And I got to the point where I was just completely burnt out. And I was like, pretty much I had, I got in the position where I forced myself to leave, because that leave a position because I just was too over taxed with it. And those kind of issues that were surrounding that disillusion and disappointment and self abuse. So I in so to share my story like my in my recovery, I guess, the way that I ended up, resolving that issue was some mental health professional help. And going out as a consultant and get I got an opportunity pretty early on to do a freelance project. And that enabled me to start my consulting practice and start to make my own schedule and be a little selective about clients. Although I have never said no. And I know many of you are in house and not everyone can leave their secure jobs. And not everyone wants to do the independent consulting thing. So I'm not saying that's the actual solution for this. But I I have to say that it's it's a constant, day to day challenge and practice that you have to kind of keep up. So here is that tweet that Katie mentioned, I feel as people who work in social media engagement, we don't talk nearly enough about how deeply it affects our mental health. Here are all the responsibilities that social media managers take on as a single role, or sometimes a team of two or three. But still, it's an endless, endless amount of work like you, you there's just so much that can be done and so much that needs to be done, that it's sometimes hard to kind of zoom out and understand, like, your limitations and you want to do everything but literally cannot. So we're gonna we're gonna share some other examples of the issues that we combat in. In museums, social media management, this is just a slide that I dropped in from my experience working with the Getty, there is a subset of people that believes there are child slaves being captured under the Getty and being eaten by carnivores, and it's part of the pizza gate controversy. And so on social media, they're constantly getting messages about this, and their rightful solution is not to respond because who entertains that kind of weird shit? But it is something that like, taxes you if you're seeing this constantly, and I think we we if you were in the ethics panel or the ethics deep dive earlier, you would have seen other examples of that kind of constant social media bombardment. And as social media managers, we really have to kind of take it with a grain of salt protect ourselves and I And try not to let it get to us even though it inevitably does. Burnout is a problem in all sectors, but nonprofit workers can be especially vulnerable to workplace fatigue.
Unknown Speaker 20:14
And that's a thing that's also a point. elaborated in the next slide. We're all passionate about what we do. And like I said, we want to do everything, but we just can't. So. Another slide about what is burnout takes an incredible amount of brilliance and bravery to create and write 1000s of pieces of content per year, and each and every one on the internet first to be critiqued. So we do get feedback from our followers. And we see all that day to day. And it just amounts to like an overwhelming pressure on the individual that we need to kind of really recognize and examine. So here are some solutions that I want to put forth. Um, you are the best. And sometimes you're only advocate, focusing on and advocating for your own work life balance is essential for communications and social media professionals, and workforce at large. So here are a few things that I think you can do to for yourself, to communicate with your manager and the senior leadership of your institution to avoid or prevent burnout, a lot of documentation, making sure that you're communicating the volume of work that you're doing, and looking at that workload yourself and examining what you know, and prioritizing what you're doing first, second, third, and what needs to be de prioritized, what you need to let go or delay until you have the time and space and energy to do it. Let's see. And then my last point is that I that I want to make personally is that it's okay, it happens. It's happening to all of us, I think we've all shared our some of our experiences with burnout, and we can commiserate together. And it's nice to be a part of a community that's honest and open about this kind of stuff. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable, accept support that is offered. Take control of your mental health. And Katie, Claire is going to address this a little bit later. But self care is not the only solution. And it is now identified as a systemic issue within our field. So I think that perhaps coming out of this conference, we can all hopefully put our heads together and think of other solutions that senior leadership can become aware of it and we can advocate for ourselves and each other and our staff if we manage someone directly, so that's me.
Unknown Speaker 23:10
Okay. So I'm gonna channel Leslie Knope, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Parks Recreation, but I have been in government for over a decade. I sound like I'm part of a support group. And so I've been in AI Yeah, right. I'm Katie, I work in I work for government. Um, I've been in state local government for over a decade. And they're kind of sometimes it's a stereotype of government employees being kind of lazy, doing mediocre. But in my experience that not to not necessarily true. A lot of times, we are tasked with things that are above our pay grade. And I think this is for a lot of people. And we also experienced burnout. And so what I want to talk with you all today about is specifically what burnout looks like in government, which might be a little bit different than like some of the things that we talked about. So the first thing going against us is we are right at the top, most annoying industry on social media. And people typically are not happy with government, we are an easy target. So I kind of go into my mindset of no matter what we post on our social media channels, we're always gonna have somebody who doesn't like it, who has a huge concern about what we're doing with their money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So what that means is that early on, when I first started, I got into social media, I would take it really personal, like people would say stuff, and I would be like, I'm a person behind this, please don't yell at me. I have nothing to do with that. And especially in North Carolina, I don't know if you guys are familiar with HB two, which was the bathroom law. When that was happening, anything we posted immediately, hundreds of comments. And I would be like, we're just a science museum like we have nothing to do with we honestly had nothing to do with the policy regarding that. I understood that that was there. their experience and I think they had every right to comment. But it was very difficult. The second thing that I experienced in the last two years was, we were in the news about Confederate monuments. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that. Our state was dealing a lot with that. And part of my job was filtering comments that came up, especially about our public comments. We had to filter public comments from everyone about the comp the Confederate monuments. And I'll never forget the day, we had to download them. And I read through 1000s of comments. And when I say it is like, the deep seated worst part of people, because that one, they thought they were anonymous, they weren't. And secondly,
Unknown Speaker 25:51
I just couldn't believe what people were saying. And I just thought, I don't get paid enough to do this. Like I was sitting here thinking, and I remember I went home, and I literally just closed my door and watched bakeoff for four hours. Because I was like, I cannot even deal with this right now. Like I because I was angry. I was sad. Like I was having all these emotions. And at the same time, every day our inboxes I would wake up and it'd be comment after comment after comment of people just angry and upset. And I'm like, I get it. Like I understand why you're upset like we in number one, we don't agree with these things. No one that I worked with agree with them. But but we were in a situation of with government, there's policy, there's paperwork, the the way that they do it isn't the typical way that you do it. On top of that, I can't block people. I see this a lot where people are like, well just block them. If you don't like this, I can't, because of laws and policies, public record laws, freedom of information act like so we have government, like you can't just say I don't like you, you no longer cease to exist. In my world, we don't have that luxury, which means I am commonly interacting with regular trolls to the point where I'm like, Oh, they're back, like, like clockwork, I know. And they're gonna come in. And one of the things that really came to me was, and this is what I tell people all the time, trolls can also be real people. And so I was dealing with an individual, and I'll never forget, I walked into a meeting and they were sitting at the table, this person, who then went on to berate everybody at the table. And it was like a real life comment section of a Facebook happening in a meeting. And I was just looking at my coworker like, Is this happening, like, real this person in the room because they had set up, had the ability to communicate to people because they felt they weren't being heard on social media. They took the next step. Were they able to do that? Yes. Was it really bothering me? Yes. Because like, this person knew who I was that it was a real person. And now they're yelling at me in person, like, what do I do? And so I, on top of all of this, when I took the job, I didn't realize really what I was getting into. So I always joke about the I'm okay, but I'm drowning. I'm, we have over 200 social media accounts under our department agency. On top of this, I became the social media home monitor, which meant I also was putting out fires, not only our own fires, but other fires. Honestly, my water tank was running low. I didn't like I was just over my head. And my boss sat down. And she was like, how are you? I'm like, good. And she was like, No, really, how are you? And I was like, I'm good. It's just like, and I was like, honestly, I don't want to do because I said, I feel like, you know, this is a layered cake of here. I am trying to do my best with what little resources I have on top of that is like my own inability to say no, because we live in this society of scarcity, where everyone's told you're not enough. You don't have enough. You need to be enough. But the truth is, you are enough, right? And like, and then layered on that was imposter syndrome. Well, I don't really need to be here. So I need to do more to prove myself, you know. And she looked at me and I'll never forget, she said to me, she goes, I don't want you to just get by, I want you to thrive. And it was like this light bulb went off. And she said let's meet and figure out how we can make this work. And so what we did was we came up with a plan and Ryan talked a little about this Randolph tight was another session about really putting, thinking of how you can communicate to people above you how, what you do in your job, and how much more you can get done with the resources that you need. With all that said, I also kind of have my own things that I had to do in my own life to avoid burnout. One of those is set boundaries. So I turned off all the notification issues on my phone. I try not to answer emails off the clock I, it's hard. I'm not perfect at this. And try to be more thoughtful about how I use my own personal time. I invested in those those glasses that help when you're reading screens, which has been a lifesaver, because I was getting horrible headaches, and I couldn't figure out why. Get up and move, go to the kitchen, talk to people, don't isolate yourself, structure your time, I went to my boss and I said, I work better at night, would it be possible for me to leave early, pick up my kid and then get work done at home. And she was like, yes, whatever you need to do. So those are the types of things you think about. Some other things I've done is I deleted apps. So I personally, I couldn't do this for our accounts. But personally, I got off Twitter for about four months. And it was literally the best thing I ever did, just to kind of detox get away from it all.
Unknown Speaker 30:52
And then delegate, so I was really bad about taking tasks that I felt I had to do and not putting them on my employees. And using project management tool, project management tools like Trello, and things like that, I'm starting to like delegate task out and take that off of my plate. And then what I tell a lot of people is don't put all your time into social media account, or social media platforms that aren't serving, you don't spend tons of time on YouTube, don't spend tons of time on Instagram, until you're ready, and you have the time to do that, that can wait, that's not a big deal. So these are some of the things from government is that you know, we have this extra layer of taxpayers that are very upset about things. And so on top of all of that, we're trying to deal with it, and then keep your own sanity. So with all that said, that is my personal experience. But when when when this is done, just keep telling yourself, you are enough, you're doing the best you can, and you're gonna thrive.
Unknown Speaker 31:46
You're only one person and it's your one and only life.
Unknown Speaker 31:52
Hi. Okay, so um, so I'm from Sydney, and I've been in the museum sector since 1987. So figure out how old I am. And I've kind of coming from a bit of a different perspective, because as you can see, here, burnout isn't a new problem. And I've seen that in my whole long career of people overworked feeling passionate about their jobs, wanting to be on 24/7. And this was before social media before even computers and that kind of stuff. I used to see it in my workplace all the time. And when I started at the Australian Museum, and I never worked seven days a week and stuff like that, but it just sucked you in, because that's what everybody did. And that was a really cool job. And so that's just what you did. So I just wanted to kind of highlight that, it's, it's not a new problem, but it's probably a bigger problem. Because I think the way the world is it's so fast, and everything's 24/7 that it's just become worse. So that's just something there. And if you could just so I was at the Australian Museum, and then I got made redundant from there, which was a bad thing, because I'd been there for 27 years. But it was also a good thing because I got some payout and was able to do something, and my partner at the time got his divorce settlement. So I was like, well, let's just buy something and invest and have it for later on. Then I worked at the Maritime Museum for three and a half years, and I loved it there. I was initially contracted for two and then they kept asking me and I said, Well, okay, that's fine. But the second time of the contract, I said, look like I really need to finish up. The reason was because I was in a very, I was in a position where I was the head of learning and audience research. And my remit was we've got to move all these people into more of a digital mindset. And while the majority of people were fantastic, there were two people that really just wouldn't do it. They wouldn't even move deaths without some drama. So it was a not a great situation for me. And when you kind of end up at the hospital thinking you're gonna have a heart attack, because of all the things that were going on at work you just didn't want to go was terrible. So, and my partner, he was like in a high pressure sales job. And we just said, Fuck this. We need to make a change in our lives. So we decided to buy we bought this little property and we decided we're just moving out of Sydney, and we're going to go it alone. So he finished work. He doesn't get paid. So I'm now the breadwinner for the household, which brings another set of stresses and I went out into consulting so this is kind of just before we move on, that's my office there. So I do a lot of work. Online focus groups, which is great because you can do it while you're having glass of wine and look at the wine. We we grow garlic and commercially kind of semi commercially so we provide restaurants around our area and we grow award winning tomatoes from the Robertson Show Champion fruit And we make sausages. So we just decided to make a complete change in our lives to help our own mental health. And just to see if we could do it. And if I could just get the next slide. Thanks, Lucy. So I really had to think about well, what we say in our household is that every day is a Sunday, but every day is a Monday. So you don't really get a break when you're an independent consultant. Like Lucy said, I have to say yes to everything. And I have to make a certain amount of money a month so that we can keep going. And that's okay, we've decided to do that. But I also thought that I needed to really start thinking about how am I going to be productive? How am I going to have that work life balance, because when you're on your own as a consultant, you don't get those boundaries, like Katie was talking about, you can sit down with your boss and say, Well, we're going to do this well, I sit down with my boss, my partner, and it's like, well, how much money have you made this month? We have a lack of sales meeting. That's okay. I get him back and say, Well, how many beans have you grown this month, we have a lack of produce meeting. So I kind of doodled around and thought, well, how can I do this, and I've never been one for less. So I've always kind of digital person. I never usually write write stuff down. But I learned having a book, ticking things off being more productive. So I found this nice site that said, you know, how do you be more productive? Well, you create lists, your directors tasks, you go for a walk when you need to, even if it's just to the letterbox, and I'm lucky because the letterbox in our house is a long way away from our house. So that's a pretty good walk, or I go and pick peas, or go and play with the ducks or water the plants. So there's just things about how to get back to nature and also eating well, and that kind of stuff. And I think a lot of that goes out of the wayside when people are feeling very burnt out. It's like he's tend to binge on chocolates and cakes and
Unknown Speaker 36:54
bake offs. So I think that that's helped as well. So doing doing those lists and being more productive. The other two things I'm going to mention is I always make every year three goals, a professional goal, a personal goal was 33 professional goals, three personal goals and three financial goals. So the professional goals for me are really about, well, let's get some new clients, let's get some new projects. Let's do this. My financial goal is okay, I have to make and it's up there, I have to make $5,000 a month. So that's easy is making the money it's actually getting the clients to pay, which is the problem. So yeah. And then your financial target should always be a stretch target. So if I say I need to make 5000 a month, well, why don't I just bump it up and try and make seven. And then there's a personal goal. And this was a bit hard because I'm a little bit isolated, we live in the country. So it's a bit of a drive to get to the local gym. But I thought night stuff it that's I just need to do that. So I've made time for that. And I was going to do a couple of challenges there. But the problem was that we didn't like the recipes that you had to follow to get healthy. So stuff that I'm not giving up pasture for anybody. And then my other personal goal was use a slotted spoon more, that's just crazy. And I've just realized you can all see my SurveyMonkey login. But anyway, the other thing I did on the side, if you want to use my account, it's called a jar of joy. And one of my friends posted this and she said, just you know any simple thing, just write it on a note and shove it in a jar. And at the end of the year, get it all out and have a look and see wow, I've actually done heaps. And it might be something as simple as you know, the first pumpkins have come up or ducks have started laying eggs again, or it can be Oh, wow, I've got a contract for this or we want to tender for that, or whatever all our proposal got accepted for MCN. So it's just kind of a way to kind of remind yourself that there was some really great things. And at the end of the year, you get it all out. You go wow, this is pretty good. And then you do EGR again. So that's just some ideas about trying to look after yourselves and have a bit of self care. And I know that there's a big discussion about well, who is responsible, but for me, at the end of the day, we're all responsible for our own health, life, whatever. So sometimes if you need to take the step by I encourage you if you can, and you can afford it, just go for it because it was a really good move for us.
Unknown Speaker 39:22
Okay, so speaking of whose problem is this? I am Claire from the Met. Hi. I want to look at burnout. From an accountability standpoint. I think we're very in art. Always our first inclination is I'm disorganized. I'm not managing my time appropriately. I'm not using the right productivity tools. I must be the problem here. So I think it's helpful to look at this from a really wide lens. So the first person who's accountable is our culture, obviously, last year. Last year, the sort of famously the DSM added by and out to the list of real medical conditions. And that's kind of caused a resurgence of discussion about burnout and what work is. And we know that this is pervasive in our culture across industries. One theory behind where this comes from, comes from Derek Thompson, who wrote a great piece in The Atlantic, I recommend reading it. And it talks about a lot of different things. But it focuses on this idea of work ism, essentially, when we had a more faith based society, you know, communities were really finding their self value and worth in whatever their faith communities were, and now that we're in a much more secular society, we don't really have that higher power other entity to give us that. And so work has sort of become our religion, and I think it hits the nail on the head, I think for a lot of people, obviously, that's not gonna be true for everyone. But we tend to wrap up ourselves value and worth in our work. And that creates a really complicated relationship with it. And of course, that's exacerbated when you work for a nonprofit or mission based organization, where your passion is supposed to fuel a lot of the work you do. And then when you start to resent it, you start to resent your passion. And that creates a really big uncomfortable disconnect in what you're doing. So the second person who's responsible is our organizations, of course, I showed a picture of Google because, you know, Google famously offers all these amenities to their employees, you know, food, and I don't know, I don't know, I don't work for Google. I don't know what all of them are. massages, I write at, oh, nap pods? Even, you know, awesome. And that's all well and good. But we have to question what that's in service to, you know, all of that allows their employees to never leave campus and basically live and work more. A friend of mine, her brother in law works for Palantir. And they actually offer you a bonus if you if you live within like a certain distance, they'll give you the closer you live to work, the more amenities are available to you. And that's, like, super fucked up, you know, I mean, that's not okay to incentivize that kind of lifestyle. And so it's really, it really behooves us to look at what our organizations are offering us. And really question what is behind that. And I think self care is one area where that gets really cloudy. Certainly organizations will say, you know, we're going to start offering yoga or meditation or committees to talk about this. But are the we really offer the space to participate in those? Or is it just extending our day even further, if we take place, not yoga classes, that mean, we're staying until eight to actually finish our work, you know, where something's got to give at some point. And so where does that give, you know, maybe,
Unknown Speaker 42:41
maybe there's forest comp time, we were talking about comp time structures earlier, you know, what, what is? What is the official philosophy on comp time at your organization, I know, most places I've worked, it's a very unofficial policy, it's like, keep track of your hours. And let me know if you have earned an extra day. And we'll, we'll keep it off the books. And that can be really challenging to track. So it's a good opportunity to talk about limitations of self care. And Helen Peterson wrote, like, for many of us, it's like, seminal article on Millennial burnout that came out earlier this year, I really recommend reading it. It's super long and super illuminating. But one thing she talks about is the limitation of self care. And I see two real issues with self care. Some of this is coming from hurt, of course to the first is it's a lot of pressure. I mean, when you're busy as hell all the time. Now you got to think about your meditation schedule, you got to think about your apps, you think about your yoga, all the carrots are eating, like, you know, it's exhausting. And then you have a whole other layer of guilt, that you're not keeping up with the self care scope. And you got to look at it on Instagram and see all these like gorgeous, beautiful people who never got stressed out and their hair always looks good. And like, you know, whatever, it's really hard to keep up with. So a instills another level of guilt. But it also, you also have to question the motives of self care and the industry as a whole. If self care is just in service to you becoming more, a more efficient worker, that's not really self care, that's just oiling the car so that it runs better. All of that is ultimately then in service to your work performance. And so self care in its truest form, should function as a way for you to be a healthier human being separate from the work that you're doing. So questioning what your self care, you know, routine is is significant when we're thinking about ourselves from a labor perspective. So I encourage you to question that and then feel okay, if you're not really like keeping up with what you should be doing from a self care standpoint. So next, it's our bosses problem. Of course, our supervisors hold a huge responsibility in our schedules and the work that we do. I think he can go the next slide. To me, this brings up a lot of core issues surrounded by burnout. Obviously, there's a lot of things that contribute to burnout, but a few things that rise to the top up for me. One thing that I've noticed in, I've been doing social media management for museums for about eight years and for every supervisor I've had has never actually managed social media. Or if they did, it was maybe 10 or 12 years ago, they didn't I mean, Facebook was founded in what 2003. So the whole industry is only 20, under 20 years old anyway. So it's not surprising that the people who are managing us don't necessarily have a real grasp on what it takes, compounded by the fact that the platforms are changing all of the time. So even if someone managed social media five years ago, Instagram stories was not part of their workflow. And, you know, anyone who works in social media knows the perception versus reality of what it takes to put together an Instagram story is a huge gap. And I think even for really well, meaning supervisors who think that that work takes, you know, oh, yeah, I know, you're putting a lot of effort and I must have taken you like, at least a half an hour, that takes days that takes hours to sit there and put together quality content. So there's a huge, huge gap between the actual work that we're doing and what's perceived. And that also can create a lack of recognition, which is certainly something that contributes to burnout, when you feel like all the work that you're doing is for naught. I mean, I had a, I had a boss who didn't even have social media accounts the entire time I worked there. And so every time I would show her a success, it was kind of like, Oh, look how cute. That worked. Like, congratulations, you know, that is super condescending, and super demeaning when you're a professional person. And that same boss, when I left actually said, like, you know, we should sit down and talk because I really have no idea what you do all day. And I think that's another thing that happens when we're working in these isolated roles. If we're doing our jobs well, and not setting off major fires on social media, we kind of like evaporate into the background. And it's not until there's some crisis, that you're there, like, how did you fuck this up, you know, and then it's like, really rises to the top. And, and that's super, super stressful as well. So that can be really complicated. And then I think another Oh, sorry, one more other thing is this pride factor, and that the pride factor is really used against us so much. We have pride in institutions that we represent, we have pride in the work that we do. And very often, when we're faced with working an extra hour, because of the pride and significance of our work, or going home, we're choosing that first option. And that is not sustainable in any way. And then, like I said, we present our passion, so.
Unknown Speaker 47:41
And then finally, it's not a problem, for sure. And I definitely don't mean this from a, you know, find a better productivity tool, figure out your work schedule, like we know, we could all there's probably tweaks that all of us can make all the time to our workflow and everything that that we're doing. But I think maybe there's a few other options of things that we can try from a personal standpoint. So I call this impossible things we need to try, because I'm sure we can read all of these and be like, I can't do that in my job, you know, there's always a billion reasons to be like, this is not going to work. But sometimes it's worth it to give it a go. So one thing that I try is not working overtime, outside the office, a lot of people, this is not something that they can do. I'm single with no life. So I can work until 9pm. Sometimes, but you know, if there's an event that we're covering, after hours, I could very easily work on the coverage for that Instagram story, on the subway on my ride home, or when I get home, and while I'm watching the office, or whatever. But that's really not like, an accurate indication of my work. So I really tried to actually do all the work in the office. And then it's really easy for me to tell, oh, my gosh, I worked until nine, you know, four days this week, because I was there clocking those hours, I think, you know, the benefit of digital work is that you can take it everywhere. But it's also the downside, and it becomes really, really muddy about when we are actually working. You know, turn off the features that, you know, if you turn off Facebook Messenger, I mean, you got to do what you got to do. And if managing that and fielding, that kind of inquiry is not sustainable and not something that you can do, then you just have to say no to it, you just have to not do it. And that can be really challenging. The benefit is if you're if you know if your boss isn't really aware of social media and its needs, it's easy to have control over that. And you can argue well for it, but I think, you know, yeah, Instagram stories are too much of a lift, then you just can't do it and the person whose problem it is to manage that is your supervisors not necessarily yours. Saying, saying no, obviously it's a super easier said than done tactic. But I think it also behooves us to really say no, a lot At times, it's really easy to say no, it's like, you know, Programs team wants to publicize an event that the photo is super bad. And you know, it's not going to perform well and blah, blah, blah, like, it's easy to say no to that, I think it's harder to really set boundaries, you know, setting standards, and then really holding to them. If people have to give you the content for eight hours in advance, or whatever it is, if they violate whatever standard that you've set up, it behooves us to really hold to that because otherwise, there's no point in that guideline, and then we're still picking up the slack. So really saying no, even when it's uncomfortable, I think we're really inclined to use workload as a point of pride. Part of it is this work ism thing. I mean, someone recently in the cafeteria, said, like, Oh, God, you know, I had, I worked 60 hours last week, and I don't I don't know what we're all trying to accomplish. With that, I think, I think we do feel like oh, like I'm putting in so much time and like, everybody should know that. But we also it's manipulative for ourselves to like, it's, it's not a point of pride that we had to work that many hours, it really shouldn't be. And we set a really weird standard when we talk about working that way. So really avoiding that glorification of killing yourself for your job. Think refusing to carry the mental load is the same in many ways, saying the same thing as saying no, but also ensuring you have a backup, it can be really hard to fight for that when you're a one person team. And I think someone else was talking about that, you know, it's hard to give over the reins to someone who's also not trained in this. But I think it's really, really important to demand a backup. And if you need to be the one to provide training to hold, you know, maybe it's regular training about, you know, how how to respond to comments, or when to respond to comments are what kind of stuff to post than that, that might require a more a little bit more of a lift on the front end. But it's really significant to have someone to back you up. Because it's, it's totally unsustainable as a single person. And I know tons of people who just, it puts you in tears, it's so frustrating to work alone in this space. And being upfront, I mean, that's really where our responsibility is, if our supervisor isn't aware of the amount of time that it takes to put all this stuff together,
Unknown Speaker 52:17
we have a responsibility to tell them what that time is. And I think probably a lot of people are okay with that, and are looking for what the actual number is, if it did take you three hours to put together the Instagram story like that, that's part of that plan. If you're putting it together for an exhibition, that's stuff that we have to account for. And if we don't tell them, they're never going to know. And it also sends this very weird implication that our job can be done in 40 hours, when actually it's taking us 80 hours. And we're setting back the entire industry, when we're giving the impression that we can take this on. Again, all of these are easier said than done. But maybe it's a constant thing that we're practicing. I think sometimes it's also about just accepting that you're bad at your job, or what feels like you're bad at your job, you know, when you have to make that choice of like, well, it would really be good if I put in an extra 45 minutes to do X. But I'm just going to not do that, you know, I'm just going to be and it's really uncomfortable. I think social media managers in particular are control freaks, because we have to be because we make a typo, the entire internet, it's just gonna yell at us, which has happened since I worked at them. And it was terrible. And I think we just have to choose to be bad at our jobs sometimes and be okay in that space of mediocrity, if it means that we're able to, you know, have some sanity for the day.
Unknown Speaker 53:46
And want to contribute that old adage Done is better than good. Yeah, sometimes.
Unknown Speaker 53:52
And the thing is, it is our super, it's, it's the, you know, we have to float this up. So if we're having to post last are having to make these decisions. People above us need to figure this out, they need to figure out the money and the workload and everything. It's not our job to kill ourselves for this work. You want to feels like it. And I recommend complaining. I found that to be extremely effective. In my old job. I complained every day for three years that I had too much work, and that I had the job of, of two people. And after three years, they split my job into two to two different positions. And it was very effective. And I was very annoying about it. And I think it works, unfortunately then I got a job with it and didn't read the benefits of that at all. But Emily did so it all works. Yeah, exactly.
Unknown Speaker 54:40
To add to that, one of the things I did is sometimes I think when like our supervisors don't always our supervisors don't always realize exactly what we're doing all day. So last year, I decided to screenshot every comment we had printed out I put it in a folder. And I gave it to her. And it was about this thick, and she was just going through it like, this is so ridiculous. And I'm like, I know, this is what I've been trying to tell you like, this is what I'm dealing with every day. And it wasn't even questions for our department. It was like, I saw somebody illegally dumping sewage I saw and I have to help these people, right? Like, I can't just be like, hey, wrong department. Sorry. Like so after, you know. So I think really, like put in perspective that when you go and not only complain, because that does work sometimes make it make sense to them, where you're screwed. Like, I literally screenshot every single nasty comment, every single question, every single thing that I was dealing with every day going, this is what my time is consumed by and her going, Okay, you need help. So those are the things that you really have to put in front of them to really, you know, make them see and sometimes it works. And sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes you make this decision to walk away and start a new adventure, you know, so those are those are decisions you personally have to make.
Unknown Speaker 56:04
Yeah. And also, you know, if you're a supervisor, that's it's your responsibility to think about this, too. I think it's significant to be asking this question, are you burned out? How's your workload, and it's not a once a year at your review question, it's not a twice a year at your informal review. It's a very regular regular, you know, burnout is not something you just arrive at, it's like a thing that we deal with regularly and avoiding it as a practice, it's not a one solution. So if you like the comp time thing, like, if you're supervising someone, you can't tell them like one time like, hey, don't forget to use your comp time, you have to be putting that in their mindset all the time, because it's uncomfortable to go to your boss all the time and be like, Hey, I worked another extra 20 hours this week, I needed, you know, three days off, or whatever it is, people will just not do it. We know that we have like, there's so many like stats about people not taking their time. And so you have to remind people regularly and create space for them. And then my last point was just really giving yourself the benefit of emphasizing the good. I mean, all the negative comments stick out more, but sometimes I will just kind of go through and read like, Oh, hey, like I love this post or like great work or whatever. You know, that's helpful. That's very, very helpful. And also I would recommend reaching out to other institute like other institutions and other social media managers, like oh, great post, I love this, like this must have taken forever, like we do have a super supportive community. And also like other brands, like I've, you know, every now and then it's fun to just like shoot a message to like Nike or whoever it is like, they're busy, too. They're stressed out of social media managers, too. And we all everybody forgets that there is a human behind every single brand out there, even the people who do it, so it never hurts to just shower people with positivity.
Unknown Speaker 57:59
We're going to open it up to audience feedback and questions in a second. I just wanted to also note that burnout can be a progressive thing, and it can compound on itself and it can hit you before you recognize it. Or you can recognize it as it's happening. Or there are levels of burnout, you can be slightly burnt out or you can be majorly burnout. And I think that's like a real litmus test that we need to always be cognizant of as we do this job.
Unknown Speaker 58:29
Like, we have a mic person, official,
Unknown Speaker 58:32
thank you very much. I just wanted to say first and foremost, this was probably the most cathartic session I've been in like last two days, every single thing you said resonated with me. I apparently went through burnout and didn't know it until you all were just talking about it. Not museum related. I'm actually originally from education. I didn't join this world until seven months ago. But I was in I worked for private school. And I had a boss that had sort of a bad combination of needing everything from me posted within 30 seconds of it being done, but not actually being on the channels. So she had no idea what I did. And I didn't know that I was having burnout until I talked to my best friend. And I told her that I had like a sinus cold. And she said, Well, it's June and I said, is that like the month for sinus cold, so I don't understand your point. And apparently for four years straight, I had been sick in June because it was after graduation. And I would have just spent three weeks with like 70 hours per week or 80 hours per week. And I had no clue that there was a pattern happening. So I moved to museums, and I feel incredibly fortunate that I have a team of people who not only get what I do, can log in and edit things or change things and were incredibly collaborative and even like they celebrate stuff like I've had colleagues come up to me and say I saw that story last night. Great job, very informative. And I'm like, thanks I literally did actually You spent two minutes on that. But thank you very much, as opposed to like the ones I've actually spent hours on, but I will also agree with that concept of trying to, to train others have had do things. I have colleagues who know how to handle Twitter, it's one thing I'm not super great at both because Twitter sucks. And also because I just, it's the one place where I feel you really, really can fall into a rabbit hole. And also just because social, Facebook, Instagram, they're all very different in a lot of different ways. So I haven't fully nailed Twitter. So when we have an event that I have to cover, someone else handles Twitter for me, and I handle Instagram, Facebook. And I really do encourage you if you have someone in your organization, and they don't necessarily know how to use it, but they're still willing, I recently taught one of my colleagues how to use Instagram stories because I couldn't make the event I didn't want to make the event I wanted to have I was going to Chicago and was taking a trip, I wanted to have a break. So I taught her how to use she didn't even have she had a personal Instagram, but she had rarely used it. I taught her how to do stories, she's become a super zoom fanatic. And now her personal feed is filled with pictures of her dog was uses was super slim, because she loves it. So there can be converts, and they can figure it out. And it doesn't have to be perfect. She didn't use, you know, videos, she didn't create hashtags. She didn't add a ton of things. But she covered it and it worked. So maybe just keeping that in mind. Okay, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:41
Yeah, I also thought this was a really informative session, I have like a two fold question. So I'm sure there's a lot of people like me who managed social media, but also have to do many other things like write blogs, and manage the site and do videos and stuff like that. So my question would be like, a two fold question like one, how do you deal with? Or how would you advise people to deal with sort of getting all the social media content out there all the time, when you have to be other doing other things, and you don't always have stuff that can go right out on social media? What advice would you have for that? And secondly, do you ever get sort of frustrated, let's say, you do take time to build something, then it goes out on Twitter? And you're like, okay, that had like a two minute lifespan? Like, how do you deal with that sort of, like annoyance of social that ask sort of annoying part of social media? If you could sort of if either of those two or both of those questions?
Unknown Speaker 1:02:24
Yeah, I'll answer first, and then I'll pass it down. But I think strategy is really important to look at the big picture and strategize and prioritize, as Katie mentioned earlier, like, what, what platforms are working for you? Where's your audience, and focus there? And then and, and know your limits, and priori, prioritize accordingly.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
So to go off of what Lucy said, so our department oversees, like I said, we have over 200 sites, and it was just, it was, it was a mess. It was a hot mess, trying to keep up with all that. So what we did is we audited our accounts, we said, Where are we succeeding? Where are we not succeeding? What content does well, and then we sat down and totally redid our strategy. And instead of doing like, first, let's make sure we have evergreen content that we can use at any time that we know is going to do? Well. We did we are doing what now is like just full on open source initiatives. So what we do is we create initiatives that give other people like, come on join us. And then we use that user generated content, which saves me a lot of time. So we really thought about strategy and how we could save ourselves and not having to do that. We also invested in using things like MailChimp and Zapier and we really, really critically looked at tools that are worth the money that are going to save us time and how we're putting out content. So that's one way and what was the second part of your question? The frustration, the frustration, oh, let me tell you. So we have in, in my, in my small unit, we have our knowledge, shame and our level of fame and we print them out and we put them up so we embrace it. And so on in our kitchen in the refrigerator, we actually put up all the good things that come out of it and we make sure everybody you know high fives. But I think for that it's just learned from it because you know, I we're not psychologists, we can't get in the human brain. So what we think is like might be really good may not be like hilarious to another group of people. So I think with that is we just learn from it. And just like, you know, just switch it off. Yes,
Unknown Speaker 1:04:33
I'm sorry. And that pressure to go viral. That's such an indicator that those people do not understand the industry because it's like throwing spaghetti at the wall and whatever sticks. People are weird and they pick the weirdest things to make viral. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:51
So when I was head of digital at the Australian Museum, we set up all our social channels and we did something similar to what you were talking about, was that we had a And out, sourced within the museum model. So we picked five people that we thought would be great from different areas, some from science and research someone from conservation, someone from front of house, someone from education, and each week, we'd have a stand up meeting. Okay, well, who's going to look after this channel, Baba Baba. But remember back then we didn't even have Instagram that we had Flickr, who's on that? So we made a collegial decision to do it that way. And as me as the manager was kind of overseeing it, but we had a very loose kind of set of morals back then we just did what we wanted. And just speaking about viral, we had a viral incident that I caused that caused me to get kicked off as the Facebook administrator. So but also told us it like we learned when to post something because I was, anyway, so long story. So yeah, well, actually, what we did was we learned that a don't have your museum Facebook account, as well as your own private Facebook on your very new brand new iPad, posting while you're cooking dinner, watching a stupid show on TV, and then you post Oh, I've just spent 15 minutes watching A Current Affair, which is probably like some terrible news show. But what and I realized I posted it as the Australian Museum. But what it actually taught us was that a poster quarter seven at night was the best time to do a Facebook post. Because this post went off. And it was so funny, because people were so kind of funny about oh, Australian Museum, what are you doing watching A Current Affair? Australian Museum? Quick. This is my favorite. Go read Proust. And then you got the other people are saying, you know, how do you say currently this. So we ended up deleting the posts, and I got kicked off. And that was kind of a symbolic thing in the museum. So you can go viral. But I would say in a small institution, when there's a one of you, if you've got a good manager, make sure that they do know when they can give you help. And you can find other people that are really great at doing this kind of content. As long as you you're managing it. So anyway.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:10
I would say focus on one thing that you're good at, I'm not as good on Twitter, and I Facebook is just like, terrible place. Yeah, Facebook sucks. So like when I was in New York, historical and complaining every single day for three years, I just decided to put all my energy on Instagram. That was the bedrock of everything. I definitely treated Twitter and Facebook like ugly stepchildren. And that was just what that was, you know, you have your only one person, you have your capacity. And I also would say, don't worry about redundancy, you're gonna see redundancy a lot more than your followers are, we would. I mean, we would love to think that our followers really like are paying attention. But we're not competing with other museums, we're competing with every social media account that exists in their feed. So we're lucky if they're going to pick up on a single post that we're putting out. And I think you can you know, there's different ways to capitalize on to us lack of redundancy. Oh, sorry, we're running out of time. But maybe the maybe this could be the last question. Sure. Oh, and we can talk about it. Yeah. But I think, shoot redundancy, oh, you can use that to your advantage. Like my old colleague Museum of the City of New York every single Sunday, they posted a user generated image of their one stick, single Starlight gallery, it pretty much look the same every single week, but people loved it, it was like a beautiful space. And so people came to rely on that. And it saved a lot of time, it was really easy. So and like focus on your greatest hits. Like we always think that like, we need to be like super unique and go behind the scenes, whatever, like, giving them like, people love Washington Crossing the Delaware at the Met, you know, we're not gonna post it all the time. But we can post it more than we think that we can. And then also, you know, like national cat day and all the whatever hashtag holidays like, the outside perspective is like you need to post about that to be part of the conversation. But I think the benefit of those is just gives you content ideas, like it's not hard to make dinner, it's hard to think of what you want for dinner. So let those guide your strategy and it's a lot easier to plug into them. And also so then the other thing about Twitter is like, or like a post that sucks like, I don't know, Facebook. I mean, social media is totally fickle. So I got nothing for you, like, so much of our work is pointless, honestly, that we put stuff out there. We were just talking about it Alexis and i The Frick and the Met coincidentally both posted this picture of this really cool gold lion clock that we both were like this is cool. And she tied it to in like a lion out like a lamb and I tied it to daylight savings, whatever. And they both sucks. Nobody cared about them. So like whatever. We just wasted a couple hours of our life and that's our job. So yeah, who knows? You know, it depends on so many things. You With whatever you know, I don't know
Unknown Speaker 1:10:04
about allocating all of your little things. So just to add something to the things that Claire says you should do for yourself that, you know, easier said than done. But I just was in a position where we, for two years, I advocated and advocated, we finally added somebody who's now just responsible for social and emails, and I was like, I do social, I do emails, I do marketing, I do communication. So I had like, 10 jobs. And finally, July, when we, we were able to get this person. And one of the things that I did, and I hadn't even really occurred to me until just your list is that when I was complaining, and when I was advocating for myself, I made sure to like, tailor my message to the person I was talking to. So my boss, yes, of course, I'm like, this is terrible, oh, my God. But then when I was like, having lunch with our CFO who's like, you know, paid advertising on Facebook and social media, you know, hits the bottom line, blah, blah, blah. And then it began to, like, create this sort of culture of like, it's not just posting Cat Day pictures, but it's actually going to affect things overall. And we need somebody who can actually manage that. It's not just like a thing I do at nine o'clock at night, it's actually a real job that has real ramifications for the institution. And so when I was talking to various people who are part of this decision making process of adding a human being to do this work, I was speaking to them in a way that it made, you know, it added value to the conversation and took two years. But she's, she exists. And I haven't had to look at Instagram one time this week while I'm at this conference, which is actually kind of nice. So it just, it's a success story. No, it's not gonna work for everyone. But if you can take a little nugget of that, as you're advocating for yourself, and for your what are our professional practice, I think that hopefully that helps. So I just wanted to add that at the end.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:43
So to close the session, I have two things to say. One is that support, delegation, all those things are important. And, you know, you are empowered to advocate for that kind of stuff, like having a support staff member and training them to do the job or delegating the work to someone else. And having been in that situation and doing the job solo in house myself. And now consulting on this, like outside of museums, I really, really want to make it a personal goal to support all of you whether you are able to hire me or if you want to, you know, put our brains together on on campaigns and projects, I be happy to just collaborate with any and all of you. And then the last thing I wanted to say, to Linda's point about sharing her viral mistake is that we all make mistakes, and we need to recognize that and understand that it's okay, not everyone has a public platform to make their mistakes on so we are in a unique position in that sense, but it happens to everyone and they can be really bad mistakes or they can be minor mistakes. And they're all They're all out there for the world to see unfortunately in our line of work so yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:03
Not ashamed to admit that I used to be a social media manager for a science museum and I one time tweeted giant hemorrhoid instead of asteroid and it will haunt me for the rest of my day. So on the tombstone Um, anyways, thank you all for coming today. Don't hesitate to reach out to us on social I'm going to also plug our if you are still on Facebook, we have an awesome Museum, social media managers group that has great feedback, ask questions, a huge group of people that can help you so don't hesitate to reach out to me last minute things.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:43
I made a typo during Met Gala, so don't worry.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:47
I tweeted a picture of my grandma