Hybrid Museum Experiences: The good, the bad, and the lessons learned

Our focus is the rise of hybrid in-person-and-online museum experiences during the rapidly changing pandemic. Questions posed and discussed include: Is hybridity the bridge back to “normal”? Is there a place for hybrid in a post-pandemic world? Do these experiences serve equity, inclusion, and accessibility needs? How are resources managed? What role can co-creation play in hybrid environments? Participants will co-generate a lessons-learned document to share with the MCN community. Track:Interpretation & Storytelling & Education


Unknown Speaker 00:22
Welcome to our session this afternoon. This session is hybrid museum experiences, the good the bad and the lessons learned. My name is Kajva. I am the emcee the educational interpretive media six chair. This year, I am a transformative non binary person, I use they them pronouns. I'm wearing a green dress, I have dyed red hair and I'm wearing a headphone set with RGB lighting, and you can see a blown up photograph of a stirrup jar in the background. And today we're going to talk about hybrid programming. So if you want to go ahead and move to the next slide Chelsea. So first thing we want to do is we want to give a digital land acknowledgement. So, just as just as a reminder for everyone. We do live and work on the ancestral lands of indigenous peoples. Please consider the legacies of colonization embedded in the technologies structures and our everyday ways of thinking, digital tools are often not available in MANY indigenous communities as significant carbon footprints contribute to climate change disproportionately affect indigenous people. Together we can improve this condition. Chelsea. So today we are going to again talk about hybrid museum experiences, and we want to start with a quick kind of non comprehensive definition of what we mean by that. So the general idea of a hybrid experience is one in which there is an in person component and a virtual component that hopefully complements each other in a way that strengthens the, the program as a whole. And we hope to actually engage audiences both on site and online either synchronously or asynchronously. This campfire session will be focusing on four hybrid experience examples and then we will have 30 minutes of open discussion, and then we will actually be compiling a resource document based on our conversations here today, that will be shared out during the MC on Slack channel and our own CIC page.

Unknown Speaker 15:48
Great, thank you Kajva I'm Chelsea Shannon I am the co chair of the educational interpretive media SIG I'm also the interpretation manager at the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston. I am a 30 something white woman with curly brown hair that's currently pulled back I'm wearing a black and floral shirts and I'm sitting in my home office, you can't really see much but a gray wall behind me. I'm going to be moderating the discussion portion of our session today. So I'm going to pass the baton in just a moment to our speakers and they're going to give you again four very short examples before we launch into with the broader conversation where we talk about best practices, lessons learned, things that we're still pondering and trying to figure out around hybrid programming, and I wanted to let everyone know feel free to engage in a couple of different ways you can pop any ideas, thoughts, questions that come up throughout the presentations into the chat, and that's something that we will fold into the discussion at the end, as well as when we get to the discussion portion of the session, you can engage however you feel comfortable through the chat you can raise your hand. You can also feel free to just unmute and and contribute in that way. I trust the participants here today. So with that said, I'm going to pass the mic to our first presenter Mark Osterman.

Unknown Speaker 17:09
Thank you, Chelsea. Welcome, everyone, thanks for being here. I'm Mark Osterman I'm the digital experience manager and Head of Education at the low Art Museum, located at the University of Miami. I'm also an active MTN board member, I'm a middle aged white male, I'm sitting in my office at the museum, I wear glasses, and I have a digital background actually of a French painting from 1860 of a sunset in a forest which is part of the Lowe's collection. I'm going to share just briefly, some information about how we're thinking about hybrid experience and so we're doing it at the low on every level we can imagine, but what I thought I would share today is how we're thinking about the visitor journey so in the past, how we conceive the visitor journey was really driving visitors or community or constituents to physically get to the museum. And we're sort of reconceptualizing that idea of the visitor journey that it would. At this point, be a hybrid experience that at all times that journey is both a digital one, and also a physical one, so just breaking down these bullets here ways we're thinking about the pre visit the on site and the post visit, I'll run through most of these bullets. So for the pre visit we're doing strategic and consistent communication through social media and our website related to the hybrid programming and new safety protocols that we have. We've incorporated new cloud and web based POS systems so we can do online, and time ticketing. That also allows us to do capacity ticketing, and also just in general limit physical touchpoints and building as maintain capacity ticketing, and we're also really encouraging people now to either use their own mobile, mobile devices, or tablets that they may bring to the museum as we've had to pull a lot of our digital interactives, from the galleries, when people are on site. Again we're figuring out how to increase these sort of contact list experiences through payments technology to reduce face to face contact and when the touch points, we're incorporating web bat and website resources for self guided hybrid experiences at this point, We hope to step back, where this is where we're doing both, but at this point right now at least at the low we're really steering away from tactile experiences. We've also developed a digital map. The idea behind that is a more sustainable type of map that's not paper based. It's contactless the admission sticker that everyone gets when they come to the museum has a QR code that drives people to it that serves also as a self guided tour of the museum. And we've also incorporated throughout the physical space of museum wayfinding devices that help promote social distancing using QR codes so people can do deep dives when they want. Lastly we're thinking about our post visit so experimentation with visitor engagement and how we can add feedback loops with social media. I'm sorry I'm going so fast, but I want to have my, I want my colleagues at time to go. Chelsea if you could go to the next slide. So just quickly some moving forward some lessons learned and challenges that we've identified so obviously hybrid requires more resources, it's going to end is requiring more digital literacy across the museum, and also for our visitors. We're coming to think about deeply about our audiences a digital conservative distinctly different audience than the on site doesn't have to, but we want to be strategic about how we're utilizing it. We also want to think about when we're doing hybrid programming whether the digital component is as corollary, or it's, It's something completely different, but the idea that digital should not always, or in MANY cases it just should not mirror what an on site experiences and then lastly just bringing up that from our experience with digital we've noticed that iteration experimentation and even making mistakes is fine, and that it actually opened up and it adds transparency to the dialogue that takes place between the museum, and our audiences and kind of relax the sort of the stuff Enos that can be associated with the academic prestige of a museum. I'll just mention one or two of the challenges that we're looking at moving forward and one of them is really focused on meeting visitor expectations so with technology visitors, really have an expectation of customization, almost instant gratification on certain levels, and so we're struggling to figure out how to deal with that. There are other items in here I'm not going to go through every bullet so make sure that there's time for my colleagues, and I'll give it over to I think that is next.

Unknown Speaker 22:06
Thanks Mark. Similarly, I might be speaking a little quickly, um, My name is Deborah Howes, I use the pronouns she her. I'm a white woman with a fairly long brown hair and excited to be here with you, standing in front of my fuzzed out office so there's not much to see beyond me. As MANY of you know I'm a longtime museum educator, whose primary tool for teaching involves some kind of digital technology, the pandemic really pushed my thinking about how virtual learning experiences could be more inclusive, frankly, it's a topic we don't address enough here at MC N. A significant number of my graduate students choose to learn in a virtual asynchronous graduate program, because they experience social anxiety or maybe dyslexia, or some other kind of physical, emotional or cognitive barriers, people who struggle to hear, see, and or learn need more control over how, when and where they process information, not addressing these needs, means they will likely not attend or Return. Next slide please. Just a traditional museum educational offerings oh let's just say the classic 45 minute walking tour, are in reality far less accessible than we would like to believe. I hope these three examples inspire your hybrid program designs. The first is arts and mines, that's a nonprofit educational organization that collaborates with museums in the New York City area to host groups of dementia patients and their caregivers for gallery conversations and some creative activities afterwards. You can imagine that in the spring of 2020 they converted all of their programs into a synchronous Zoom platform. Guess what, engagement soared. Now that physical barriers were reduced some of the program participants could get it now again, belong to this program because they had to drop off when they weren't able to come to the museum for example, and they're far away relatives could now join in the fun via Zoom. As a result, the participants report that their feelings of isolation are measurably reduced by attending these programs. Second example, which is sort of titled here synchronous and listening, synchronous is really good for listening and for practicing our listening skills, thanks to an IMLS cares grant the Gilcrease museum can now make oral histories documenting the lives of African Americans survivors of the 1921 Tulsa race riot, more accessible to teach your students and others, hearing stories of struggle and success are super important for developing resilience building listening skills, and growing capacities for empathy, and our young visitors. My third example comes from the Texas Association of museums. They are integrating asynchronous and synchronous learning experiences right away when the pandemic started, similar to us here at MC N. Their, their goal though is to support digital literacy development us too, but they've taken an approach where they've really tried to reduce a lot of the barriers for their membership. I know that technology is often considered a cold medium, but with their kinds of programming their emphasis is really on building community around the learning. And since it's about, you know, getting people used to and using technology in a better and smarter way, they can really create some communities of practice within their membership as they go through the different programs that TAM offers. Those are just three little windows into how technology really can underline important inclusive learning, and I'd be happy to answer more questions later, but now I'm going to hand it off to Victoria.

Unknown Speaker 26:16
Hello everyone, my name is Victoria Waldron. My pronouns are she heard. I work at the Albany Institute of history and art as a museum educator, and I am a white woman in my late 20s I have shoulder length dark brown hair, and I'm working from home today so you can probably see my sofa and about a sixth of Clints the kiss in the background. I have a little bit of a conundrum, along with my colleagues at the Albany Institute of history and arts. We created the art does your program during the pandemic. It is virtual, it was born digital, and it is a 30 to 45 minutes inquiry led conversation about art on display in our institution. We do not ask anyone to have any sort of art history background. It is based solely on observation, and it's meant to be a contemplative and exploratory program that was conceived to be a break from the pandemic. So far, most of our programs have been run on the virtual platform Zoom. We did do one in person, socially distanced, our does your program on our lawn. And I have also researched written and produced slow looking videos on the Albany Institute's YouTube channel. Next slide please. Thank you, Chelsea, so I suppose this is the point of the conundrum. We are concerned now that we've been in this situation for about a year and a half. How do we create a hybrid experience that combines the accessibility of a virtual platform with the community of in person programming. Moreover, how do we meet user needs, while recognizing the changed landscapes of museums. Thank you. And I believe, just as next.

Unknown Speaker 28:23
Hello, I'm just Rosenthal, I use she her pronouns and I'm the interpretation specialist at the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston. I'm a white woman 30 Something I have brown hair that is pulled back and I am in my home office today. So I wanted to focus on a specific type of hybrid experience digital exhibitions, and one thing that we've noticed at the MFA age is that digital exhibitions can take MANY different forms. They can be extremely immersive experiences that literally transport you into a gallery space like them at 360 project. On the other side of the spectrum, they can be very high level overviews of an exhibition, just on a website. They can exist only digitally or they can be in this hybrid realm that we're talking about where they are based on a physical exhibition. We've even seen examples that allow online visitors to curate their own exhibitions and examples that allow a lot of freedom, and how visitors explore the digital exhibition, or there may just be one sort of linear pathway through which a visitor can travel through an exhibition. So next slide please. So with that variety of digital exhibitions in mind, I want to provide two examples of of digital exhibitions at the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, and digital exhibitions at the mfh tend to take really one general format, we use a platform called culture Connect, which is an interactive without web app. And we use that to house all of our exhibitions images exhibition texts and visitors can explore that app really very freely, and in any order that they choose. Um, the first example I want to share is one of the earliest digital exhibitions we created. So our challenge was to design a template to use for future digital exhibitions. This first exhibition was part of an initiative called the world, faith, initiative, and it was around the theme of light and it stood out because it was this hybrid experience it was based on a physical exhibition but actually had more exhibition images and text than the physical version. Next slide please. Thank you. And the second example I want to bring up is one of our high school photography exhibitions, and this one really stood out because it was not based on the physical exhibition, this is an exhibition called Stronger than COVID-19. And although we had done created digital versions of high school work that was also just like physically in our museum. That was not the case here, as I said only existed online. And it was really important because it came from a community desire to have this content made available. Next slide please. So, I would like to take a moment to reflect on the question of why are we creating this digital content. I think it was really obvious at the beginning of the pandemic, this answer, The answer to this question was that we needed to have digital exhibitions because people could come to the museum and we needed to be able to share this content with them. And even after our museum reopened. There was an understanding that people remained hesitant to visit in MANY cases, and so they need to also have access to this content, but now we have data that tells us that our visitor ship is back up, perhaps even to pre pandemic levels. And so the question remains why are we creating digital exhibitions now. And there's a few reasons why we think that it's still very important to create digital exhibitions. Primary among those is increased accessibility and widening our audience space, but also because they allow our audiences to extend their experience of our exhibition exhibitions outside of the in person visit, and they allow our institution to preserve a version of the exhibition, after the physical exhibition has ended. And that's it for this one. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker 33:23
Thank you so much dress, so we are opening up the floor now right this is a campfire session we've given you some ideas to think about some examples of what we're doing and how we're thinking about this idea of hybrid museum experiences and we want to hear from you. And again, the goal here is that we're going to collaboratively create a document that documents in MANY ways all of the lessons, maybe not all of them but MANY of the lessons that we have learned in this time of working in this hybrid way. We have a number of questions that we're going to pose to you, feel free again to use the chat, raise your hand, unmute yourself whatever you feel comfortable with. I'll be kind of trying to circulate through all of those different modes, I've got a couple of my co presenters here who are going to be helping me to do that. But if you have something to contribute to the conversation that doesn't specifically answer the question on the screen, that's fine too. We're interested in hearing how hybrid programming is working for you what's working and what's not. And also where we go from here as Jeff just posed. So our first kind of big picture question is exactly that, what's working well for you now. What do you think is contributing to that success, people ponder the question of that. The flip side of that which is. Oh yes,

Unknown Speaker 34:52
if you want I can share just a program that below is done that definitely has, has worked for us so it's similar to one of the programs I was mentioned it's an inquiry based program but it's centered in mindfulness, and so we used to do on site, mindful looking program. We did it once a month, and we had a group that would come, maybe it was five, anywhere between five and 10 people would attend. Once COVID Hit we obviously needed to switch and so we pivoted to doing that program through Zoom, and suddenly, our attendance soared. And so, two obvious reasons one, was it became a lot more accessible through Zoom, and then the other was it was clearly serving a community need from all the heightened anxiety, what our new lives have become. And we had found that through, Zoom, that it became a, it was highly effective still as a platform so to do this sort of prolonged inquiry based looking at works of art, centered around the idea of wellness. And so at this point, we are challenged with that question. What do we do next, how do we move forward, does this become a hybrid program, or does it work well, and just leaving it within the digital realm. But um, again what were, what was and is exciting about this is that it's also a program that for us when we think about and consider New Museum relevancy and community impact we know for certain that this program is servicing that so we also want to deeply reflect on how its success is both as a hybrid program but also in terms of its content and what it's doing for the community, how that can be replicated in other ways and other programs.

Unknown Speaker 36:42
That's great, thanks Mark and I, it's interesting that it's in MANY ways very similar to the projects that Victoria discussed with this idea of slow, kind of almost meditative experiences with single artworks, There's something there that does work really sometimes really beautifully in the digital space. There's a question from Emily Crum in the chat, which I think is a really important one, how are you discussing hybrid models with more senior leadership who are sprinting to returning to normal, you know, how does this idea of hybrid work in relationship to the quote unquote return to normal. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts Deb I see your hand.

Unknown Speaker 37:20
Um, well just an approach that I think you know won't be a surprise to educators, and is it can be really forceful when presented correctly. I think there's a basic assumption and leadership that there's one channel like there's one location for your museum. And that's the channel that you program through so if you open your doors, why do you need these other channels right. So, the problem there is that we all know that there's a different set of audiences that come to the digital programs that may never come to the physical programs. And that's a really hard conversation to like start in the right way you'll have to do it what comes out of your own, like sort of culture in your museum but the bottom line is that when, if you've made let's say for the last year this enormous effort to offer these programs online. And you've gotten good feedback you've got good attendance. Why in the world would anyone argue to close those down, because this is the world that you really have to push into, you're not going to be able as a museum to be sustainable, Unless you do grow your digital programs relationships communities. So, this is actually a blessing in that it gave you a very quick start to do that. If you close those down, and you're saying that you're going back, Not to the future. You're going back to the past where you're always going to be limited to engagement from a physical visit point of view, and I just don't think that's a sustainable approach. So however you can argue that but I think from the visitor access point of view and interest and engagement. I think that's it's a, it's a productive conversation to have.

Unknown Speaker 39:23
Yeah, and you know I'm seeing a comment in the chat here from Mary Louise, who's saying that there was a lot of great feedback about online lectures and demonstrations, but then they were asked to stop planning more while the organization took a step back to reconsider their digital strategy and I feel like it keys into what you're saying, Dad, which is that yes we need a strategy for doing this, we I think a lot of us are seeing that there are real benefits in terms of access to this way of working. But how do we do it in a way that's sustainable. Right.

Unknown Speaker 39:54
I'm also seeing a comment here from Melissa, about how they started doing outreach programming with schools because schools were not doing field trips to the museum, but still wanted to do kind of in school programs, and so had started to do these outreach programs to kind of encourage teachers to do more, was to say, current teachers to do outreach alongside the virtual programs to create a more complete learning experience. I think that's something also to consider is when you're doing hybrid programming is not just what you, as an institution, feels your need and want to do, but also what it is that your audience, constituents can actually like afford, and are able to interact with. So again, obviously because of COVID Not being able to do in person and so only being able to have the virtual aspect. So that's something to consider as well.

Unknown Speaker 40:54
Yeah, this leaning in is really significant for K 12 Sorry, go ahead, Jess, I think you're gonna say something. No Stephanie was

Unknown Speaker 41:01
sorry to cut you off, I think you're absolutely right that point about audience, right, who are we serving and what are their needs in this particular moment right i, we have some questions in here just about that, you know, what are you hearing from your audience what are you learning from your audience in this time in terms of what they need, and how does that impact your decision around hybrid programming.

Unknown Speaker 41:24
I would like to point out that it looks like Rachel also added to the chat, and she said that there is real value to not staying too attached to anything, whether it's digital hybrid or in person, and I think that's a really excellent point to make, especially when we are considering what works best from an audience experience then it takes a bit of pressure off of us to try to keep investing in digital programs or investing in in person programs or hybrid. If our audience is telling us, one thing or another.

Unknown Speaker 42:02
Yeah that's a good point, and also not to just become like alright so hybrid programming should be the default because now we have these, you know, digital materials we could just use it with everything, right, and then being it not recognizing that there are certain programs that you can't do in person, and other programs, you can't do online. And so kind of learning to use hybrid judiciously, as opposed to just relying on it for everything.

Unknown Speaker 42:29
Yeah, that why question you know why should this particular experience or program or content be hybrid. And I think for MANY of us I'm just reflecting on things that are going on at my own institution there are certain things that have lend themselves really well to this type of thing, you know, someone in the chat I might have been. Mary Louise I think who was talking about bringing specialists or curators or experts in from afar, you know maybe it's someone who wouldn't normally have the ability to travel to your institution but you have the ability to kind of beam them in right, my colleagues and programming have been thinking a lot about that it opens up doors, both for your audience to participate but also for people to contribute to the kind of content creation. Mary Louise also says we don't have enough information about our digital audiences how they are similar and how they are different from our on site visitors. And I think that's a really interesting point, I think there's a lot of info being gathering gathered as we speak right now. I was in a session actually earlier in the conference with several folks talking about some of this data that they're gathering, Martin Spellerberg and Associates and a couple of other folks are working on that question. And I think that we should you know have some more data in this realm. Very soon I think each individual institution probably has some that they're working with, but it is a good question right, you know, how are we tailoring these experiences to really meet those audience needs.

Unknown Speaker 44:00
Just a quick connect a shout out to culture connect, who does, who did a phenomenal job of turning around a quick survey during the pandemic of what people were looking for and how they were responding and what museums could do. I think that really opened our eyes to the fact that museums were, I mean, sorry that visitors were sometimes logging in, just to have fun, or just to feel a connection or just to get their mind away from the being locked up into their houses and. And I felt like a lot of us were just like, oh, like, okay, we can do that. And then there was this like sort of flurry of fun things happening, You know online from the museum so I just feel like that's maybe not a long term answer to the question in the chat, but I feel like there are, you know, large scale solutions like the one Chelsea described, but the anecdotal is also okay for this moment.

Unknown Speaker 44:59
Absolutely, I think you're right, like we're using the info that we have, trying to make the most of it right now. Suzy asks Do any of the examples given have ways to measure the hybrid approach to show success, and if so, is it ROI audience engagement level of content consumption increased membership, what's your measure of success. That's a really great question who does anyone have any thoughts about how they are approaching that.

Unknown Speaker 45:26
Well I can I can touch upon it. We've been doing that quarterly. But but it's on our minds and so when I say poorly is that we just haven't been doing it in a robust way where right now, it's really about numbers, and that's been satisfactory, because we, we were closed well over a year to the public and so it became a desperate race for us to figure out how are we proving just simply a quantifiable way that we were serving the public and a constituency. And so that goes back to my earlier comment. I think it was Mary Louise also brought up just how important right visitor studies are in this realm where we have really leaned in right digital to another comment that was in the chat digital has been around, right, we haven't fully pivoted we've just really leaned into it, but it's time to really figure out a lot of these questions and I've seen a lot of dialogue going on the complexities of how do you measure it, how long can somebody be engaged with the digital format that you've considered they've really attended the program and got something impactful out of it. It's just so different than the on site experience where typically they've invested that time they've come to the space they're gonna stay for the length of the program. So, just a lot of challenges there. And I'll just say lastly like for us, we've been looking at our numbers, and they, they've been good, but an example of where I think we're, we're taking a, like, we're not thinking deep enough about how we want to do our programming strategically so our lecture program became a digital program, it's called Low connects and one of the reasons that we're definitely going to keep it going, now is because it's actually drastically reduced our cost to run lectures. So that's anything from the cost of flying somebody here to paying security to being in the galleries to having the museum open in the evening, but I mean that's, that's a real shortcut to figuring out, you know how we're serving our audiences, that's how we're serving ourselves so to answer that question, We have a lot of work to do here.

Unknown Speaker 47:44
Yeah, that's a question from Suzy in the chat that has been backed up by Chad here is one of the questions we actually have in our presentation here as a discussion of how do you go about evaluating these kinds of things, but what is your what is your kind of metric for success and failure and how has your institution kind of adapted from that.

Unknown Speaker 48:09
Yeah and Chad makes a really good point right it can be difficult to balance the assessment of what people say compared to what they do. And so you know how you get asked that question, surveys, analytics, how do you combine that kind of qualitative and quantitative, and I'll say to you know this deep dive into analytics analysis that I think a lot of us, maybe we were doing some of it before through our work but now it's like the million dollar question. What are people doing how much of it, and when and how and why. And I think that's been a real pain point for us anyway is making sense of the data that we have and we can say okay you know X number of visitors. But what else, what else can we learn and what else can we kind of tease out of those numbers.

Unknown Speaker 48:56
And I just wanted to piggyback off of what my colleagues have said what I, what I've been seeing in the chat, and just sort of continue to emphasize that yes of course metrics are important, it is hard data you can sort of see it you can understand it. But I would also suggest that as Jacques has said so I'm going to sort of back that up, the idea that, you know, the digital space is not always the easiest I absolutely agree with what Jacques is saying that, very often, different content can be buried. But I would also emphasize that anecdotal information getting reviews from people about their digital experience, whether it's an email a comment during a program is also incredibly important because not everyone engages with technology in the same way. So what you may view as a two minute, you know, sort of engaging with a program that may not be meaningful to you but for that person, that two minutes could have been very important to them, and important for their experience of your museum, or historic site.

Unknown Speaker 50:19
Of course the inverse can also be true, right, so what you think is an incredibly important. Two minute presentation that you put a lot of time and effort into doing, and putting available on the website and other sorts of places for people to access. People just don't resonate with it, and then they just don't click on it it doesn't do anything like you wanted it to. As someone

Unknown Speaker 50:41
who used to be paid to do evaluations and museums, I can say that time is actually from my point of view, not a very relevant measure of engagement or learning, and that even goes back to what I'm, you know about the inclusion comments I made earlier. But I do think that we haven't as museums explored other platforms beyond our website, beyond whatever enough to take advantage of systems that are out there I'm not talking about social media so much here but, for example, the two museums that I know most closely, the Museum of Modern Art in the National Gallery of Art, have done a lot of online courses on public platforms like Coursera and edX. And they did experience a huge increase of people signing up to take the courses that are offered by those museums, and in those platforms because they're designed by universities that need that data. There's a lot of information about what people find interesting which parts of the course is that they finish the video which videos, didn't they watch how long they've watched it, we're not anywhere near there but it doesn't mean that we couldn't push to use those tools more to really get some of the information that you guys are looking for in a more substantial and I think way that scales, more easily.

Unknown Speaker 52:10
That's a really interesting point DAM looking at other models from slightly adjacent fields, I was advanced this next slide where we're at five minutes out from our scheduled end and I want to pose. In some ways, kind of a wrap up question which I think is absolutely what we're talking about now, which is what do you need, what do you need help with, what do you still need to know what are you still trying to figure out about this hybrid experience model. I think this point about evaluation and analytics analysis, and how do you combine the qualitative and the quantitative. That seems to be a real need right now is thinking through that together a little bit about how to make sense of some of this data. And I want to pose that to the large group here, you know, we think about some type of resource document coming out of this session, what, what do you, what would you like to see in it what are pointers or things that you still need help with. I'll open up the floor for people to respond to that, but I also want to say that the end of the session is not the end of the conversation so find us on Slack. Today's Slack channel. Hashtag 2021 interpretation dash story that edu. Education is where comments reflections ideas additional questions about this topic can be posted and you can also tag your posts with hybrid New Museum, and that way we can kind of easily sort through it and know that you're talking about things that came out of this session, so I wanted to put in a plug continue the discussion we hope that this has been kind of thought provoking in a way to think through some of these issues. But again, you know, what do you need, what are the things that you're still thinking about instead of kind of working through

Unknown Speaker 53:50
all sorts of stuff on what Chelsea said we also have our own personal Twitter's if you want to contact us and talk about this, there as well. We encourage everyone to do that as well and our contact information is on the slide here.

Unknown Speaker 54:05
Jack says I've been listening closely to the Creator economy and the tools they've adopted.

Unknown Speaker 54:11
So I'm a huge qualitative person. I was surprised to find such good data behind the online course bro platforms, which hopefully we can replicate for ourselves.

Unknown Speaker 54:20
Yeah, that's such an interesting point.

Unknown Speaker 54:24
I think this whole discussion really resonates with some of our struggles around data collection especially qualitative data because in person environment we often do visitor interviews, and that's really difficult to replicate anything, and get that amount of buy in, in a virtual environment.

Unknown Speaker 54:48
Victoria asks really interesting question, do people like the term hybrid New Museum or should we look to another term, does it translate to museum workers do more with less, which really good question. Right. And that's something that I think has come up in a couple of conversations that I've had actually recently of like the digital staff and the museum has, you know that lean in right we've really picked up the pace in a lot of ways. What does that mean, you know. Yeah, well I know we're right at time I want to thank everyone for being here this has been such a great conversation please continue chatting with us on Slack and in other places. And again we will circulate the document coming out of this session through Slack through the MC and segs and other channels so please stay tuned for that. Thank you everyone.

Unknown Speaker 55:43
Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thank you.