New horizons: reflecting on the digital cultural landscape of the Arabian Peninsula

The Arabian Peninsula is witnessing a period of unprecedented growth in its museums and cultural organisations. In the context of ambitious visions for the future, switched-on audiences and a wealth of intangible heritage, what is the role of digital now? Join our panel of museum practitioners – Christophe Buffet, Ghaida Sawalha and Rachel Teskey – as they survey recent major cultural projects in the region and discuss how digital is opening up new horizons for visitor experiences and storytelling. Track:Middle East/Africa


Unknown Speaker 16:05
Hello and welcome to this session of MCN, which is a panel on New Horizons: reflecting on digital cultural landscape of the Arabian Peninsula, I am Christophe, and I will introduce Rachel and Ghaida, who are presenting with me, or they will introduce themselves, actually.

Unknown Speaker 16:31
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel, and my director of buckling which is a cultural consultancy that works on Museum and Cultural projects all around the world we kind of focus on the Middle East, as a company, we've been working in the region for over 16 years. And personally, I've been working there for around 10 years so mainly in the UAE and Qatar, but also, Saudi Arabia and Oman. I work mainly on all kind of interpretation projects so developing narratives and content and visitor experiences. And I'm also doing a part time PhD looking at the museum writing process. Testing cognitive writing strategies from other sectors in the context of exploration development and have been trying some of that out on some of our Middle East projects, and I work with Ghaida, who's one of our senior consultants.

Unknown Speaker 17:19
Hi everyone, like Rachel said, my name is Ghaida, and I work currently with Bob Langham, based in our Dubai office. So I'm originally from Jordan I worked there for a couple of years but then I moved to the Gulf to my masters and also stayed there, like I've been living in the Gulf for the last, I don't know, 910 years, like, working on different cultural projects within Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, and most of the, let's say elements or things that I focus on in my work our content management interpretation visitor experience and also audience research that's

Unknown Speaker 18:14
okay and I forgot to introduce myself I'm Christophe Buffet, I am French but I worked in, in the UK, then I was in France, then I worked in Brazil. I attended MCN three times in Minneapolis, New Orleans, and Pittsburgh, when I was living in Brazil, and just after that so I met some of the names I can see this. After shortly after this I moved to Canada, three years ago in 2018. I've been here ever since. So, we will start we decided to start showing you a few images of projects, either that we have been working on or that we've seen in the region, and Rachel will start showing some of these things happening in the area.

Unknown Speaker 19:05
Yeah, so I think I'll start with this section so I think one of the, we're talking about big events in relation to kind of visitor experiences happening in the Gulf now export 2020 is the big event happening now. As you can expect it's the reason I haven't looked at everything yet, which I'm looking forward to do so. But I just wanted to talk about like some of the things that I've noticed also like from conversation with friends and colleagues who visited Expo, which is this kind of use of reliance on digital media to kind of create different experiences within the different types of pavilions, either country pavilions, or like the thematic pavilions, and I wanted to just kind of quickly go to the expo pavilion, the UAE pavilion and Expo. And it talks about the history of the UAE like talks about the past, present and future, mainly through archival images and footage, and with a heavy reliance on digital elements as it, as well as some, like some exhibits with sand, and also some kind of scenic elements. So even from the cueing in this picture if you can see my cursor. As you're doing cueing you have these pillars that kind of like as you look inside these holes, which is the picture down you can start seeing these kind of archival images and footage is about the UAE kind of introducing you to what you're about to see inside, and then once inside you have different types of experiences but there's like some of the examples is this digital projection like a projection mapping on sand dunes or projection mapping on glass, and to kind of show additional archival footage and images. So, there is a bit like there is a heavy reliance on the digital elements within the UAE 2 billion, and it's actually successful in its communication with the narrative that it wants to present. Another example is the Saudi Arabian pavilion, which also mainly relies I think it only relies on digital elements or digital visitor experiences. Again, starting from outside from where you're cueing, you have this like impressive huge screens that tells you different stories about the Saudi Arabia, focusing on it's the landscape of different regions and its cultural heritage, which is also the theme that's focused on the inside. So even as you go inside you have like, it's like this huge productions and screens that shows you this like amazing landscape of Saudi Arabia. And also, even as you're going up the escalator in this image, this is going from one floor to the other on the escalator, you have this kind of scenic element to them, and cultural heritage site, but also with like productions that kind of link it into the intangible heritage of the region. And it's also done in a very simple but very impactful kind of way there is no text, there is no written information it's all very visual. Another example is mobility pavilion, which is one of the dematic or pavilions, for the expo this year, and it's actually one of the projects that Burquitlam along with the Met. Design Studio and other of course, companies have worked on developing and working on, and it also talks about the story of movement movement as people throughout time, movement of of information and data, and it combines both kind of physical exhibits, but also a lot of digital elements that as you're going through that experience, a lot of them are very kind of impressive like visual elements also giving you the experience, and telling you the narrative in a very simple way, but very impactful way. So these are just some of the examples, there's a lot more going of Christopher's you want to talk more about or I think Rachel.

Unknown Speaker 23:40
Yeah, I think I'll just give you a bit of an introduction to another big recent project in Norwegian, which is the new National Museum of Qatar, which is a project that three of us worked on together, and opened in March 2019, the museum itself was designed by John nouvelle a French architect, Obviously that slightly crazy architecture here it's in the form of a desert rose which is an old formation that's found in Qatar, and the new building kind of wraps around historic palace which was built in the early 1900s That was home to Qatar's first National Museum which opened back in the 70s, and a skydiver shown from similar to the expo the museum uses digital in lots of different ways to bring the objects and stories to life and probably one of the most striking things across the museum is that the large scale art films are shown across the walls of most of the galleries so these were specially commissioned from Arab and international film directors, and they reflect the collections and their narratives. So, this example here is all about life in the desert and the film's kind of very meticulously recreating a day in the life of an encampment, and then you can see on the floor display there just in front are kind of items that were traditionally so parts of the tent and so on that have been featured in the film. And then on the next slide, there's kind of similar protection film, which is about the UNESCO World Heritage Site of LT bar which is in the north of the country, and it's an old pearling town. And again, there's kind of recreations of what aspects of daily life were like in the town, lived with objects and as some planning tools Khurana was discovered at the site, archaeological items and so on that were found there. One of the most popular films on the next slide is called Shadows of the past, tells the story of the unification of Qatar's tribes. Back in the 1800s. This is directed by Peter Weber who was a film director of go with the pearl earring so they have some really big names, involved in developing the art films. The film itself is about 20 minutes long and we had expected that the visitors would just kind of dip in and out of the films but actually people stay to watch the whole 20 minutes, which was really lovely to see and actually, even on some of the times at the opening weekend, we're kind of breaking out into applause at the end which was really lovely people were really getting very invested in these in these films in a way that we weren't necessarily expecting at the outset. On the next slide, one of the other examples of kind of a key, and quite striking use of digital in the museum is these large format oral histories, which are featured throughout the galleries. Golf culture is traditionally variable based with knowledge kind of being passed down through stories and poetry and so on. So it's very important to showcase these kind of oral traditions and the people very prominently, and the galleries, and there's lots of digital elements throughout the museum I think over around 180 Digital exhibits so that goes from kind of quite simple, abs through to very complex multi touch tables, this is one example here in the gallery, about the discovery of oil, and that kind of allows visitors to really delve into more detail. And then there's another example on the next slide, which is a big multi touch wall, which has got a mosaic of photos. Either both official photos and from kind of personal collections as well as the development of the capital city of Doha, from kind of the 1950s through to today. And then the last Gallery in the museum is telling the story of Qatar today is very interactive space there's lots of kind of mirrored glass and screens and to create this kind of very immersive digital environment, and even the outside of the building has actually been used as well for as a kind of Canvas for digital media productions for them, and especially events and anniversaries and national holidays and so on so yeah digital elements really being used in all kinds of different ways in the museum. Christophe has another example from Qatar for this.

Unknown Speaker 27:54
So, one project I'm working on at the moment in Qatar and it's not open yet so I can't really show anything from inside, until it opens, but I can give you a few idea but what will be inside, is to get our Olympic Sports Museum, so it is very particular that in, besides telling the story of sport and how sports came to be an activity, and telling the story of the Olympics and the Olympic movements, and having a role of athletes. This museum includes what we call the activation get me which is the last gallery of the museum, and each visitor to this gallery will receive some kind of RFID wristband and using this wristband, they will be able to track the performance across 18, very large, complex mechanical interactive so challenges, we call them challenges, and each of these challenge is measuring people's results against one of the core competency that makes up what we call physical literacy. So it can be controlled, can you focus can you focus on under pressure, or fortitude, maybe, do you have endurance, do you have the stamina to go through any fault for 30 seconds or longer, another of these competency is collaboration. So can you, can you be a good team player and vitality, do you have this extra push of power when when it matters. And the last of these five competency is quickness, so just speed and velocity to do some some of the activities. One of the goal of the museum is to get residents and local citizens, more active so we are showing, also some inspiring stories in this gallery, and the goal is to have visitors to come and repeat their visit and see if they have made any progress, and also I forgot to mention, but at the end of their visit, they will get some bespoke recommendations, what activities they might be very good at, or they might enjoy later sports activities, we can move on to the next slide.

Unknown Speaker 30:32
Yeah, this one is just a bit more of a general overview of one of the kind of big trends in the region which is around digital art and projection mapping so God has already mentioned a few examples from the expo. But there's a really vibrant, quite young art scene in the Gulf, and there's lots of artists working with digital media and quite creative ways and kind of combining traditions like calligraphy with all kinds of contemporary media. And there's also a real appetite from audiences to see something new and creative which we'll talk a bit more about later. And then yeah these large scale projection mappings on historic buildings, and this is something that's really popular for major events so the example in the top corner there is Catherine Hudson in Abu Dhabi, which is kind of the presidential palace, almost of the, of the emirate. And this is for a big festival that was held there. And the bottom two examples from a World Heritage Site in Saudi Arabia, these are the projections for National Day celebrations. So it's just kind of a few images of some of the kind of quite popular trend that's, that seems to be increasing over the last few years,

Unknown Speaker 31:45
this one yeah this one I do not work on but it's a project I visited in the region, that really impressed me it's in Kuwait. It's Commissioner Abdullah and southern control center, and it's like a conjunction of five or six different museums, you have like science museum you have a natural history museum with some kind of greenhouse indoors. You have MANY MANY different things including some very advanced uses of multimedia digital and robotics like the image in the middle where you actually have some kind of robotic arm ticking, or drawing your you after a picture that is taken. So on the left is actually a portrait of me. And on the right side is one of the very complex games that they have built in this museum, where you can also track some kind of progress with so little cap. In this one, I think people are playing basketball and they have to throw the board in one of the inmate eliminated the baskets that lights up, but it was. It's really something really interesting, and this one is one of these long tables where you can display different content by approaching one of the tokens at disposal so this one is about astronomy and will display on this very large table some content about Estonia, very well executed and I recommend to visit.

Unknown Speaker 33:27
I moved a bit fast. But yeah, another big example, within the Gulf is the loser Abu Dhabi course. And within the louver itself, there is an offering digital offering that kind of in the form of interactive or media screens that share content relevant to the artworks. But the point I wanted to focus about today is the idea that in 2020 and as a response to COVID-19. The Louvre Abu Dhabi had added like quite quickly actually an offering of digitizing a lot of their content, and offering it to people. So making a virtual tours, making collections available online, creating audio and downloadable activities for people to use. And the idea was that, as the museum was closed to keep that kind of content, kind of accessible to all, which is, I know it's a trend that's also happened other places in the world, but it was like a very kind of good and quick reaction to that. So that I just wanted to kind of highlight this example.

Unknown Speaker 34:46
And this last couple of slides. Also, another project I visited in Kuwait, that didn't work out. And it's so it's the habitat Museum, which is all about the plants flora and fauna of Kuwait. What really struck me is that when you enter this museum you receive one headset, and kind of audio guy, but you also receive a token that holds a seat, and if you can show him the next slide, yes. So the, the stock can you put some different consoles, you can see one in front of the big screen and when you put it there, it tells you why should you should you care but you'll see it and when you, when you plan this see look at the world, this is what you're seeing becomes. I don't really I don't really care about the technology but the relationship and making it personal making everything I would see in this museum related to this little seat I was carrying around with me, made it really more interesting and worth it and I and I still remember it today so it's in a way very effective. And I think that's, that's a good mix of combining content, and making the technology, almost seamless or transparent. So, these are five or six of the topics that we, we may explore so if you have any question on any of these axes, please put them in the chat. Richard on Hi that you want to turn your sound on so we can maybe discuss and make some some questions. I think one of the first question or topic we wanted to explore was this about the Arabian myth, and try and debunk some of the most common misconceptions maybe about the Gulf. So, one that I hear a lot is like you're you you work in the Gulf, so you have unlimited budgets and I know this. That's not true. But if my work is allowed to control the budgets we don't really communicate about the budgets, but, of course, the scope of work we are dealing with on this project is, is brutal, in a way it's very huge complex projects, but we also have a lot of constraints and deadlines on objectives to keep the project within budgets. What other myths, would you would you like to touch on, which are high now. I think one of the misconception because. Also, one thing that impressed me when I, when I moved to Qatar was the diversity of the population. Like the first few weeks the restaurant next to my hotel was an Indian restaurant and I would see lots of Indian women dressed in colorful sari and it was completely different from what I expected, and then also in the organization I work for. I found MANY women in meeting positions. That's great. My bus was a woman, the director of the National Museum is a woman the chairperson of Qatar Museum is a woman. And I think that's really positive.

Unknown Speaker 38:33
Yeah I think coming to that, I didn't know very much about the Middle East, before I started working there, but it's, yeah, much more kind of balanced and diverse and I was than I was expecting and the cultural diversity as well as amazing as people kind of coming from, from all over the world, to kind of contribute to these museums and to visit the museums as well which is, which is really really great.

Unknown Speaker 38:53
Yeah, I think I would second that, in terms of maybe some of them it's even as a God in him so technically from the region, but you also have some misconceptions, and I think it's the diversity of the teams. It's also the idea that there's actually a lot of local, local included in the teams and actually, they're the ones like literally really heavily involved, and they do their voices are really engaged within the project we worked on and we continue working on today, I think there's a conception about this idea that they're not really involved in these products, but from what I see they are then they are the driving force of what's happening.

Unknown Speaker 39:41
So, no, that's okay. I just want to say I realized how lucky I am because I meet lots of experts also who have little interaction with local citizens, we're in an environment where we have a lot of catalyst citizens for me, working with us, and that's really big plus. So do you want to touch on the, on the audience.

Unknown Speaker 40:12
Yeah, so it's gonna say one, one big myth that we haven't got to yet is kind of the perception of Gulf museums in the rest of the world which is maybe a good starting point to think about kind of perceptions and audiences so yeah there's quite a kind of preconception I guess in, in Europe and America. The West generally that there's that museums are very new to the region and places like the National Museum or expo or the live or kind of the first museums that are that have been in the region but actually that's not the case there's quite a long history of of museums and museum going in the region there's a long kind of tradition of private house museums and so on that stretches quite far back. And there's also a kind of conception that there's not very much cultural or heritage to showcase that's something that comes up a lot in the media, especially the coverage of the new museums, and that's something we'll touch on a bit more later when we talk about content and narratives. But yeah I think that's kind of one myth about how they're seen from the outside and then in terms of the audiences in the Gulf, there's, I think, in the past museums in the region have been very traditional so there's kind of a little bit of a preconception that museums are quite traditional and passive experiences and being somewhere that you go to look rather than to do things, but people are very engaged with, with kind of cultural heritage in general as a big tradition of going to heritage festivals with kind of like demonstrations and this kind of this kind of thing that are very popular. Actually now that the museums, the new museums are becoming kind of more interactive and social as the kind of perceptions from audiences about what a museum actually is and what its role is is is really changing quite quickly, which is, which is exciting. And it feels like the digital experiences that are happening in the region that kind of, they're very well suited to the population as kind of across the Gulf, or the Arabian Peninsula, the population is generally very young, and also very digitally literate this huge kind of uptake of mobiles and tablets and all of this kind of thing so that kind of digital experience works very well for the audience, and also with the kind of the ways of visiting museums. So, again, there tends to be like a kind of audience research that's been done shows that visits in the museum's in the region that kind of mainly socially driven rather than necessarily to kind of, particularly to learn something or to find something out, it's about kind of going to a new place with the family to experience, yeah something different than those these kinds of experiences that we've been been talking about big massive shows or the really cool kind of cool use of RFID technology that kind of stuff, it can work really well in that kind of small social social context as well.

Unknown Speaker 43:10
And I think one, one thing that we've kind of experienced I think is that our clients, kind of, they're really keen to appeal to a very diverse audience so all the way from kind of families with very young children right through to kind of local historians that are kind of experts, obviously, in the region's history and really wants to kind of delve really deep into the content so that kind of using digital technology to kind of layer that it's, it's really pretty valuable. Maybe guide to did you want to talk a bit about kind of that, yeah that interaction with technology and and so on.

Unknown Speaker 43:48
Yes, definitely. So I wanted to talk a bit about some of the trends that I'm kind of seeing through my work on different projects with different kinds of clients and companies and different things. And this is the idea of like what we're calling like novelty or creativity. So in a lot of projects, you always have like clients, or like generally the way of thinking is that we are always, they are always looking for novelty or the latest technology when we're thinking about any kind of digital interaction, but within the Gulf region. And it's nice to be in other places as well but this is what I've noticed specifically in the Gulf region that museums and cultural attractions in general have a lot of competition with amusement parks, shopping centers, and even these places sometimes offer experiences that do use the latest technology. So there's even latest the latest tech demos, found in malls and airports, so it kind of removes the novelty a bit from, let's say the technology itself or whether it's how it's made of. But also another element about like kind of novelties Lakers have mentioned, there's always budget limitations, but also the continuous nature of technology in general. So if we think, let's say a project that might start now, what is considered novelty in technology, when the project actually opens, it's no longer a novelty. So there's always this kind of element of wanting something exciting something new, something to create the world. And we feel like this is like presents an opportunity of actually, not necessarily thinking about new technology but thinking about how to use technology creatively, and sometimes it is about thinking of new technology and sometimes it's just about using already existing technology in a very creative way, or in a different way that's not necessarily seen before. So for example, one of the projects we worked on was the visitor experience in Buccellato in Dubai. And the intention is that we wanted to create this kind of AR experience that transports visitors from inside petrolera into different locations within Dubai. But then, the media producers do too MANY different difficulties to accomplishing that through using exactly our technology was actually to use the same type of technology that it's used in Google Maps when you're doing, like, the Street View, which you can do yourself, but actually using that technology on tablets and imposing like adding the content that we want it to present to people. And it's actually a very exciting experience and at the end, deliver the visitor experience that we want it to deliver so I feel like it's always about like this element of creativity, and, like, not always jumping to kind of respond in by giving an overview, the technology itself. Another opportunity and I think it's kind of a trend that I'm seeing also in the Gulf is like the direction to stop thinking about digital experiences as digital and physical as physical, it's more of combining both so there is a lot of direction towards combining tactile physical elements, even physical movement with digital experiences. So, kinetic production that depends on your movements gesture based technologies side of ID which you mentioned before. Yes, exactly. So it's always about like, Yanni, there is more an element of view of it like it's more kind of stays hands on, even if it's using technology. But I would say like just as a last point on this from my side is that I think ultimately what makes it experience unique is that the story or narrative you're trying to tell. So, you feel like, always the narrative, the visitor experience is the key driver to deciding what you're using. So is it using digital, and how we use it. And I feel like it's something we always do is kind of like asking ourselves, it's like, what can a digital approach, like a digital interpretation offered that other methods can. So I think it always goes back to, and I think also that what makes cultural experiences sometimes different than maybe other types of more entertainment experiences. Not to say that none of them have content or narrative but like sometimes with museums and cultural experiences. It's more robust, it's more connected to people.

Unknown Speaker 48:45
So I feel like the question, so it always goes back to the story we're telling, and, like, kind of what the content you have. And I think that kind of goes to the point you want to talk about Rachel in terms of like the content and narratives that are available within the culture.

Unknown Speaker 49:02
Yeah, absolutely and it feels like there's been kind of a shift away from doing digital for digital sake, to actually thinking what digital can do for the stories that you're trying to sell and the experience that you're trying to create as he was saying so. Yeah, so everything really needs to be driven by by the content by the stories. As I was kind of saying earlier, one of the misconceptions in the region is that there isn't much kind of deep history or a kind of long standing culture in this part of the world, which of course isn't true. There's a huge amount of content but sometimes it looks quite different to the content and the other parts of the world, which is kind of interesting challenge again it's quite well suited to digital so there's lots of opportunities there so, because the region is so based on oral traditions, there's lots of kind of intangible content that we use on our projects and that use from projects kind of all around the region so poetry stories folktales, are really really important. Often, as much, yet sometimes more so than physical objects. As we saw from the example of the National Museum, the oral histories are really important to Capture these, and there's a big drive going on in, I think pretty much all of the Gulf countries and it's often lined with museums to have a kind of a big program of capturing these, these oral histories, and so that they can be used in different ways. In museum displays and then also it's kind of an archive. The pace of change in the Gulf has been super rapid so there's people that are still around today that lived the kind of traditional way of life in the desert or in that coastal towns and cities that kind of thing so there's a real push to be capturing that that knowledge now and making use of it in really interesting ways. In the museums, and also the amount of content can vary quite a lot from project to project so depending on the topic or the particular location so sometimes it's really rich and you can be using digital it's kind of make a feature of how much content there is like the development of Doha the wall, the big call that we showed from the National Museum of Qatar, and there's actually a huge appetite for people to kind of trawl through and see things that they've remembered, or parents or grandparents remembered so there's a lot of enthusiasm for that kind of thing. But also, sometimes we have very limited content so we worked on a project at our palace in Abu Dhabi that had, there were just only a handful of photos from the very early history, and we actually built a whole digital exhibition around these five photos you know it's kind of just enlarging them and then kind of pulling out different bits of the photos and the people the objects places and so on to kind of really delve deep into the little content there was so there's lots of opportunities to be using it in, in different, different ways using the technology to make the best of the content, whatever it is that you have available. And yes, we've been kind of saying throughout there's a really big appetite for quite immersive digital experience digital art and so on so using creative ways to tell these stories,

Unknown Speaker 52:10
and that and I think on this one, that there is both some kind of combination of both choices in the architecture, or museography, but also in the curating like, and this happened before I worked for the National Museum, so I have no credit at all in this but commissioning artists famous artists or filmmakers to do these outfits that are the immersive experience. For me it's really birth, and no, not quite, your average immersive and Gerg experience that you have in every city These days, trusting people to revisit your stories and create very original content is something that is really for me, one of the most important points in, in all this. And besides this, you have the means to put on the technology and to invent some technology like they had to invent some projection mapping techniques so that you will not see any pixels. This is a very interesting technical talk for the most technically inclined people on the that took place on a panel at the opening of the National Museum where

Unknown Speaker 53:33
they think you're stuck. I thought it was the

Unknown Speaker 53:39
same left, we don't really have any questions in the chat as well but if you have a question please throw it in there. And what were we supposed to talk about the teams and expenses, I think that that's what I've noticed about the teams and the expertise, after being here, three years, is that there's a high turnover of qualified professionals who move on from one project to the next so MANY opportunities for NCCN members to work in the region, feel free to get in touch if you want to know a bit more about what it's like to work here. But these high turnover, and maybe staffing issues, I think this is changing and COVID has also been proving that people can work remotely in the organization I work for this new digital experience department and I believe this presentation also at MC n that will talk about how this new department is bringing new AGI method, methodologies, on, on projects to work on the website and this is really a good time to bring some more flexible ways of approaching digital media production. A more product oriented view instead of project oriented management, and, and I'm really looking forward for this new wave of professionals to come in the regions, once the, the travel restrictions, connected to COVID are lifted. There was also a lot of museum studies programs in the region forming the next generations of museum professionals. What should we talk about the changing thinking first COVID We have.

Unknown Speaker 55:36
Yeah I can see a few new messages but I can't read the messages because I'm sharing my screen so can you double check if we have any questions. Yes,

Unknown Speaker 55:45
thank you are interesting developments.

Unknown Speaker 55:51
Well, I'm glad people are happy. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 55:54
What can we serve at COVID in a few in a few words. What does it change for for you. What do you think how do you think digital can.

Unknown Speaker 56:04
Yeah, I think, just a few things I think that are some like things in terms of like the initial responses like kind of the rush to offer virtual tours and online content which happened all over the world. I think one more thing I think it's interesting is also as an initial response is that for projects that are under development, rather than existing institutions like there was also always this kind of like fear of like whenever you send a desk digit and you're like, people will be like, oh not touch screens right we can't have touch screens now, and it's actually a very good point. It's a and it's expected that people have this reaction, even now as things are kind of like at least in Dubai outcome, better and more relaxed and things are opening up again, there's still this always consideration about like okay, there's this idea of like we need to think differently about how we kind of offering digital, any kind of digital interactivity, so it's kind of pushing the thinking and the creativity. It's kind of, kind of heading towards looking at mainly experiences that with considerations around the space, about the flow, maybe more immersive experiences or like big passive experiences so there's still this kind of immersion but not necessarily physical interaction. And there's also like increased I would say, or like some of the suggestions or trends I'm hearing again is like thinking about personalized experiences and how can a visitor access interpretation through their own personal devices. And generally I feel like that, before it was something that's an add on to the main experience and now there are some thinking about that actually being part of the main expense like part of the experience so you can already start seeing it early on in projects rather than, Oh, what else can we do, and I think

Unknown Speaker 58:09
Richard was saying, let's let's we only have three minutes.

Unknown Speaker 58:17
Because, yeah, I think it's gotten covered pretty much everything I think that just seemed to be this kind of move towards kind of big, big experiences. But yeah, if you have

Unknown Speaker 58:27
one thing I would add quickly is that okay so first COVID has opened, everybody's eyes about, it's possible to do remote working and like this digital transformation and he was talking but it's finally happening and this is a cliche that took place, but also that for me there's been hidden cost, but this remote working shift, which was the benefit we had on the previous project on meeting face to face on workshops, inspection, trips and of these where we would go to a warehouse and see prototypes, and instead of watching someone else, test the prototype for you. So it's, it's been good for carbon footprint, we've been taking the plane a bit less but at the same time, we have been suffering from from from this a lot and I think it creates quite some some dealers that to say some to finish some, with some positive thoughts, we had recently a visit and even though we always see all the defects and the dirt and the dust and, and all these when when we see people coming to our museums for the first time and seeing what it's like. And most of the visitors will come, maybe once, not return to here, some people say it's amazing is the best heartwarming, or to see people queuing up before the opening. It has been so heartwarming to take part in this museum lunch projects with so MANY Digital Transitions. But

Unknown Speaker 1:00:05
I think that's probably a very good night to finish. Yeah, I agree.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:11
So I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:00:13
wondering, the questions in the chat morning on what

Unknown Speaker 1:00:16
thank you for staying until the end. Thank you. And maybe we can share the slides after. And if someone wants to cut the references. Okay, thank you everybody for joining

Unknown Speaker 1:00:36