GLAM Collections on Social Media: Navigating Copyright Questions

San Diego, CA


Unknown Speaker 00:00
The Stars call is being recorded. And I'm gonna present the panelist. And of course, thank you very much for being here, especially for being here this Saturday, or also, I think in Europe is not early, but it's kind of late. So thank you for being so early, so late, depending on which time zone you are. So as I said, this base recording this activity is being recorded. And it's also being organized by the museum, computer network, arrow, piano and open glum as a reminder that the call for proposals for the museum Computer Network Conference is open. And I know that Margaret is here. And she will be sharing some information about that, and about the special interest group on it. So we're going to share that transcript afterwards. So watch out for social media and regular communications channels, since that's where we'll be posting the information. And if you sign up with Evan bright, expect an email from us with the transcript of the session afterwards. Of course, the idea of this panel is also to allow for questions and doubts that you might have, that you might want to explore with the panelists. So please, if you have a question, we'll be monitoring the side chat. And so that way, we can pick up the questions that you can make to the panelists. Or if you want to bring examples or share whatever you feel appropriate. You can also jump in where your mic, but it's easier efficiency, hands on the side channel, and we can give you some way. And now I'm gonna go ahead and introduce the panelists that are with us today. And thank you again, we have Meachum she Conway, she's the Associate General Counsel at the sheep or Gary trust. And she's also an open access proponent and copyright and tax geek. I love that description of copyright geek I think this call is full of uncovered gigs. We also have with us in Anyang. She's the Director of Legal Affairs and intellectual property at news fields. And she's also the editor of rights and reproductions the handbook for cultural institutions, Second Edition. And I personally think that more than the handbook, it should be called the Bible for culture institutions. And we also have Alexandra strain, chose ca. I hope I pronounced that correctly. She's the senior Online Marketing Specialist at the collections engagement team at the Royal piano foundation. So thanks again for being here with us today. And we have prepare some questions, just as an icebreaker for starting the conversation. And basically, the first question that we have around this social media, especially with so many institutions now engaging online, is one of the policies that guide the users of media for your social media accounts. I don't know who wants to start on this one.

Unknown Speaker 03:33
Maybe Alexandra.

Unknown Speaker 03:36
Yeah, so for us, the situation is a bit special in the way that we are giving access to content from different institutions across Europe. And of course, there are different laws, they were all the stuff was digitized in different ways. But luckily, it's the records in our site has licensing information. So we know exactly how they can be used and how. And specifically for social media platforms, we have a short set of guidelines is very short document four pages long, but includes enough of information. And according to this document, what we share on social media is content that is freely freely reusable, which means public domain CC zero CC BY CBSA. I know maybe can be under discussion, then content, which is with an MC component cannot be shared on social platforms because it's in conflict with the terms and conditions of those platforms. I think we'll discuss much more about this later because it's interesting and it's complicated. And then for count And with a no reuse statement, we seek individual permission. That's because it's our dark triad to stick to the open content

Unknown Speaker 05:25
I can jump in about the Getty, you know, we have a pretty robust social media program, I'm hoping that our head of digital content strategy is going to be in the audience, and can correct me if I misspeak, but we have, you know, we're not just the Getty Museum, we have got the research institute Conservation Institute Foundation. And we everyone's got their own different social media accounts, and some of the programs have multiple ones on different platforms. But we it's definitely a designated job function, you know, only certain staff are allowed to manage those social media accounts. And, you know, we tried to put a, an overall brand wrapper around it, I have a policy for creating new accounts. Our social media policy has really just focused on, you know, keeping personal and private or sort of personal and professional activities separate on one hand, and then just guidelines about content tone, you know, following copyright, you know, our social media isn't just, we're not just posting content from the collections, but other kinds of content. But we definitely, you know, if it's if the if the material if the collections material, the glam collections material are in copyright, we do it only if we have a license, or if we have a good fair use case. Otherwise, it's a lot of public domain material. And then also, as a private foundation, content wise, we've got to steer clear of certain political and, and lobbying activities.

Unknown Speaker 07:08
Yeah, I can do a lot of that for new fields,

Unknown Speaker 07:12
that it's very similar in our efforts, any of our posting to social media is broadly governed by our intellectual property policy, as well as our social media policy, which Institute's a lot of the same that, you know, we only have certain staff, within our marketing communications team, that are authorized to be developing the content for our different social media channels. And we have, you know, guidelines, as far as you know, creating any new accounts and what that looks like for the branding and the new fields voice. And, of course, following all copyright laws, licensing on many occasions are looking to where we already have broad non exclusive licensing agreements with different artists and works in our collection. But also then working, you know, to see where we do have the opportunity for good, fair use, utilization or otherwise, you know, we are looking at, you know, maintaining those relationships, either with donors, or artists or their estates, and often, you know, looking at, you know, seeking seeking permissions, and that can make a difference as well. And looking at that with, you know, Are these just regular posts on a social media account? Or is it a post that we're looking at, that is going to be a paid post and promotional, in more capacity and to be more promoted, promoted on the different channels as well?

Unknown Speaker 08:49
Great, so, basically, so how do you do for example, like, how do you put some of these principles of the policy into practice, practice, so you have like any examples that you want to share, or some examples that you have seen of people applying it correctly or incorrectly? I know that for a lot of people, it's complicated to do attribution on social media. And so I would be curious to know how you handle specifically is that a part?

Unknown Speaker 09:23
permission? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 09:27
the thing that we're fighting I find with my team, because it can take up valuable character space. But especially if it is ever posted where we, you know, are going to rely in some way on fair use, including that attribution is another way that helps strengthen our stance for fair use. So really pushing of, you know, what are, you know, shorten captions and credit lines that we can include where you know, we're we're pulling things out like artists, nationality, life, dates, materials and things like that. If it can make credit lines longer, but then also recognizing that we also have some works that, you know, just even the donor credit line is three miles long. So working with them on, you know, where there can be the main text and then the subsequent credit lines follow. Twitter tends to be the hardest in that. So it's a lot of working with reply tweets and creating at chain. But the social media team that we have in our marketing communications have become very good at including that information and knowing that whether we're relying on, you know, often if it's something that we are working with a license, that is a requirement of that license, having that information, or for fair use, helping to support that, you know, having that attribution be present. So I know that that was something that, you know, really making sure we include that. But then having cases where we are very conscious of wanting to, you know, I guess being a little more risk adverse and making sure that we seek a license and have approval. A recent example was that we recently posted a kind of behind the scenes video, on our accounts of recent installation that took place just before we actually close to the public, that was showing the behind the scenes installation process that occurred over several days, to install a large Fletcher Benton sculpture. And being conscious that not only were we showing a work, that's under copyright, but also, you know, we were showing a little bit of the inside of the golf ball here that, you know, showing how this piece was in multiple pieces, and how it all comes together and gets installed and put together and being conscious of his wishes for the representations of his work prior to his passing last year. But then and then which has been carried on by his studio and his estate. So really making sure, you know, kind of keeping our social media team at bay that, you know, they really wanted to share that content, but kind of holding them at bay until we knew that we had all the approvals in place, and that they were okay with that representation as well. Sorry, that was a long answer.

Unknown Speaker 12:21
It's perfect. Alexandra, do you want to go ahead, and you have also some thoughts to share.

Unknown Speaker 12:27
So for us, similarly, Twitter is quite tricky. We usually either post images where we just try to give as much as possible link for a piece of editorial that is published, then we make sure that within the body of this editorial, all the credit information is included. And we just use a short link to link people to it. What I wanted to share and I find interesting is Instagram. So because of the linking issue, we were quite late to the game actually with it, because, of course, the content we're doing is not ours. These are other institutions from across Europe with only give access. So we were hesitating, when we just started, we were like very careful about sharing just public domain CCO and where the institution was also active on Instagram, we always tagged them and this is something that we do. They know their stuff. And that now we have this link in bio actually landing page. So when you click there, you can actually find back the post that we posted and just scroll down and from there, you can click through and find every record page. So this was our way to be active on Insta, and provide the information according to our own standards.

Unknown Speaker 14:08
I would echo a lot of what Anne said. And I would welcome if Annalisa who my colleague who is on the call wants to jump in either on the phone or in the comments. But you know, it is it is a challenge because their space is limited. But I have gotten comfortable with a you know, most of our posts are driving you back to you know, you're highlighting something that we're doing, it's a show it's a it's a press release or it's an object page or something. So we're we were trying to push the traffic to come back to our website. And there is where all of the stuff will be you know, unless I guess in some cases there might be a license that has more strict requirements, but you know, if someone has standard signed or standard license or if it's public domain, obviously it doesn't matter. But you know, if there is an attribution requirement that we try, we will try to work you know, some version of that into the into the post itself. I think we finally moved away from ARS wanting us to actually embed the image in the in the photo itself. But that that may, there may still be some legacy aspects of that. But put it is a challenge. But like I said, I, I'm sort of comfortable if the information is one, one click away.

Unknown Speaker 15:24
Yeah, I can add to that this is Annalisa. It's interesting hearing people talking about using Twitter threads, and you know, putting the caption and additional tweet. Traditionally, in the past, we have, like mica said, we have embedded it in the image canvas, we've extended the image canvas and added the required lender or credit line, but it's that's a bit awkward visually, and it also alters the image slightly, so it's not a great solution. So sort of looking to do something a little bit better. One thing Mika and I had talked about a little bit as we came up with a new solution for our when we redesigned some pages on our website to avoid captions, we have the metadata embedded in the image, and it's one click away from, from the actual full caption. But we haven't yet fully implemented that on social. So something to discuss a little bit more perhaps.

Unknown Speaker 16:28
We have someone already asking a question here. So I'll just go ahead and read it out loud. Lee nice pair is asking, I'm interested in hearing about the workflow within your institution. So you review social media posts, which include our works before they go live.

Unknown Speaker 16:55
Not necessarily every single one. And that's where we've done a lot of recurrent training and with our marketing communications team, and, you know, developing, like our social media policy and having things in place that, you know, we have a pretty good amount of trust in them. And what they're drafting and putting out, and usually, if they're embarking on a broad new campaign or effort are something that kind of really deviates in some way from anything that we've done in the past, usually, they'll reach out just to double check and say, hey, you know, are we completely off, you know, off base on this one? Or is this something that we would be okay, and following what our standard procedures are. But just with the responsiveness and planning with social media, I don't even want to think about the headache of if we had to review every individual post, and be responsive. But usually, you know, again, a lot of that tends to be, you know, around a campaign for an exhibition, or we're highlighting things within our collection, or re installations or certain, you know, programming and efforts. And so, you know, we've already been part of some early discussions and plans around stuff. Where we're special exhibitions, we already have a pre approved set of imagery that can be utilized around that, that, you know, it was done months before, you know, the social media efforts are actually being done. So. But yeah, don't even want to think about reviewing all of the individuals.

Unknown Speaker 18:41
There's definitely a workflow for us for like I said, at the beginning, only designated people are allowed to manage those accounts. And there again, and why can I trust them? You know, the end, there is a good, there's ongoing training, you know, it's not and then I feel comfortable that people generally know the rules. And if there are questions they bring, they do bring them to me. So if there's, if there is a question about whether something can be posted online, there's also people you know, embedded in the programs and Annalisa, you know, who are very savvy about this, and, and a lot of those questions, they never even make it up to me, but I do get involved from time to time, but I'm comfortable that we have good controls and systems in place around what

Unknown Speaker 19:23
gets posted.

Unknown Speaker 19:30
So from the point of view of person posting, I have freedom to decide. And of course, following the guidelines, it's not checked on, like daily basis because it would be just impossible. And within our team, which is responsible for creating editorial shooting on social media, we make sure that within a blog, we always try to have One image that's open that we know that I quickly can just pick up and use on social media without like major searching. So this is something that helps a lot. And thanks to my colleagues who are also here. Or about like specific campaigns, I would always ask what? Like pieces of content that, for example, change the assets? And I didn't notice they're like, Hey, can you take a look? I think there's something wrong. So, in general, on a daily basis, no, but we have to keep each other informed. Control. more tricky cases.

Unknown Speaker 20:49
Grid, I think, Alexandra, I think your audio is breaking up a bit. Whenever you talk, I don't know if that's the situation for everyone. But at least I'm like receiving it a little bit bad. So I don't want to tell you like to turn your video, or maybe that will help with your interventions, because I feel it's breaking up a little bit. So So what about I know that we have other questions? Yeah. So it's breaking up a bit. I know, we have other questions here. But I want to make sure that we actually answered this one, because I think it's important. All of you have already signaled it is as important and will receive our question earlier about this, which is about the terms of use or service or conditions of social media? What are the things that you should be considering when posting content to social media in relationship with the terms of use, or surveys and conditions

Unknown Speaker 21:58
should read them read the Terms of Use, they're different for every platform, but generally speaking, you know, the poster, they assume that the platform will assume that as between the platform and the poster, that the poster owns the copyright or controls what they're posting, and the platform won't claim any ownership of it. But it will say that by posting you are granting, you know, the A, that you're, you're, you're giving your sort of guarantee that you have permission to post it, that you control the content, and all of the necessary rights, including not just copyright, but right to privacy and publicity, say for people who are depicted or rights of trademark music, you know, if it's a video, basically, you're just you're taking full responsibility for having all of that, and being able to give the platform that license then to display it and, you know, share it and make it you make it, you know, do whatever they're going to do with it within the functionality of the platform. So for us, it does really limit and as Alexandra said at the beginning, you know, those those terms, that's a very broad license and that that means you can't you can't necessarily post a lot of things that you don't have permission for

Unknown Speaker 23:20
that is very restrictive you know.

Unknown Speaker 23:40
Great, um, what do you do for example, so, Someone also asked for example, if you share our work that is under SEC by under a Creative Commons license, attribution non commercial, for example, what happens with the terms and conditions of the social media how to the, to the license, and terms of service interact in these cases?

Unknown Speaker 24:15
Well, you know, to the extent the platform is is commercial and you're giving the platform by the terms of service, say that you're giving a platform, you know, the license to use it for their own marketing purposes or commercial purposes, you know, then that would really that would not be within the spirit of the of the non commercial license. Because when you use something under CC BY NC license, you know, the requirements are basically that you act give attribution, which is possible on the platform, but also that you only use it for non commercial purposes. So I mean, you can debate you know, the extent to which, you know what's commercial because the license doesn't define it, but by To, you know, the if there's room for interpretation, but I think you know that the, the conservative view would be that posting on a social media site like Twitter would be granting, if not itself a commercial act granting a license to to others to use it for commercial purposes. That would not be consistent with the license.

Unknown Speaker 25:27
Example of this kind of commercial use would be, for example, you put the post and you think it's an innocent post, no problem with that. But actually, the commercial platform is using the reaction of the users to build their profiles, and then those profiles will be used to maybe sell them products. And it can be also related to, you know, what you are doing and like, in a good way, but still, in the end, there is someone making profit, and according to the license, you have no right

Unknown Speaker 25:59
to do it.

Unknown Speaker 26:10
Great, and I know Sarah Pearson was here. I saw her somewhere. So maybe she wants to intervene on that later on. But we yeah, sorry, is here. So feel free to jump in? If you want to on this question. Yeah, fix the license. Yes, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker 26:35
I would be happy to. Um, so several years ago, Creative Commons, spent a quite a bit of time doing analysis of Terms of Service of different platforms on this issue. And so I read many different, more terms of service than I would like to admit. I guess one thing that we came away from it or take away that I came away with, after that analysis, we ended up talking to legal counsel at Twitter and other platforms, I have to look back to see exactly which ones which ones we did speak with. But I will note that we never spoke to in house counsel that had that very literal and strict interpretation of the terms of service. There that, that you so almost every set of terms requires that you either own the copyright or have the rights to use it. And we found that generally speaking, like I said, No one came out saying that that would mean that you have to that you wouldn't be able to upload CC licensed content that you don't own. The NCAA interpretation is interesting to me as well. I mean, I, I think to the extent there's any issue, it's that the it's an issue for the platform. Because there if anyone's commercializing there, it's the platform. And I think you'd be really hard pressed to find that the uploader is somehow on the hook for the platform's commercialization of that content. Like I said, I guess I've never heard a platform itself make that argument. I think it's a it's a really literal interpretation of the terms of service. And it seems, it seems like it would be a very tough argument to make. Right now. So anyway, that's all I would add, from Creative Commons perspective, we tend to think about it is like you either own the copyright or you have the right to use it under under a CC license. You know, CC licenses don't allow sub licensing. So it's not that the uploader is granting a license to the platform, the platform is just arguably using it under the license. And, you know, to the extent that there's a problem with NCAA, I would think it would be a problem for the platform itself. But I also understand that you, you could read it, you could interpret it, that the uploader would be on the hook for it. But I've I've never actually heard that argument being made by by a platform. So that's the way that

Unknown Speaker 29:18
things are. We also have a question from the public that I'm gonna read now, because I think it's important. And also like, I'm pretty sure you have all great examples here. So Shadi shedding young I hope that I'm pronouncing your name correctly, it's asking what directives have you given your marketing teams about what can and cannot be used on social media? And my institution there's no way for Mark come I guess it's marketing and communications to see which have objects or copyright restrictions, and they also don't have access to the image assets. So all collections I'd be The team has to play a larger role. Is anyone else dealing with a similar obstacle? Or are you using products such as, for example, dams to circumvent this issue? Well,

Unknown Speaker 30:22
we have a, we have a digital asset management system that does have, you know, rights metadata in it. And certain amount of rights metadata has to be associated with the object before it can be put into the dam. I, but Annalisa, you know, sometimes you can speak more with our tables on this, I don't actually know what, and our people everyone does have access to it, you know, when you need it has access to it. I don't know, for sure that all of the content that we post to our website comes out of the dam, some of it might come from, from other places, but in theory, that is, that's the goal is that, you know, the images are there, and that the associated rights metadata is there so that people can, and I do trainings on this, you know, so how to read that and how to figure out if that's appropriate for you. But yeah, that is a problem if people posting to social media don't have access to the, to the information about the right status. That's that seems like a big Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 31:28
I can add, just on the workflow side, how, on the social media side, yeah, we're really lucky to have this really well implemented dams that has support from the IT side, but also even more importantly, support from the rights and reproduction side. So this is particularly true with our the Getty Museum rates manager, Sherry Chan, so she's extremely detail oriented. And she'll, she puts in extensive information about everything. If it's restricted, it's restricted from download off very often. And she would need to unlock the asset on a one on one basis. And there's also different fields for rights that were like mica said that she trains us to read and understand. For exhibitions, we also have a folder system in the dam. So there's a folder, for example, with all the, all the approved images for press, and website, and then there's a sub folder with a subset of those images that's also approved for social, often an image is approved for for the web, or for distribution to the media, but it's not approved for our own social platforms, tends to be a subset, which is, you know, frustrating, actually. But so so it is. So communications and the rights manager were together to create that folder. And that's just, you know, a ton of work on all their end, it's completely indispensable for us so we can know which things are approved. And of course, we also get involved in drawing up requests for what when rights are going to be requested. So the requested URL is a package which ones we think would perform well on social which is, can often be different from things that let's say the media relations team would prefer to distribute. So there's, there's a lot of people involved in making that system work a lot of time and effort. One thing I've talked to Sherry about recently is sometimes it'll just say, call call me in the dams record, which is because they're just so many weird restrictions, like, oh, well, this one's okay. But only at this pixel dimensions are only for, you know, until it can only has to come home at midnight, it can only go up for this long, or, you know, there's every possible weird restriction under the sun and some contracts. And so writing every single thing out on every single asset is just completely time prohibitive and the dams, as selfishly, as wonderful as that would be for those of us who have to use it. So striking a balance between completeness in the record and what someone actually has time to do. On the right side to make the system keep going is kind of an interesting conversation.

Unknown Speaker 34:10
And you wanted to add something? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 34:15
So we, you know, very similar, we've got an extensive digital asset management system that we have that we, you know, have rights metadata and, and that's, you know, my department working on adding that information and getting that and doing trainings with staff so they understand how to interpret that read it. You know, our marketing communications team have access to that so they can get to what they need. But we also have get out prior to implementing that it was a lot more hands on and helping inform them and really, you know, also acknowledging the fact that there is a lot of work that goes into that rights research and rights management and sharing that information and that there can be other things that aside from just copyright, that we need to consider, in any given image where we could have something from perhaps, when the work was acquired, that there's contractual restrictions to a use that need to be considered. Or there could be, you know, issues of privacy or publicity or something that come up that we also need to layer in and think about. That is, you know, harder, harder to communicate and have all of that input. But then we also very extensively for special exhibitions often were, perhaps bringing in loans and things that are not in our collection, we try not to necessarily input a lot of that additional content into our dams. Because it's not not ours. And we are, you know, licensed and bringing it in for specific use, or either an exhibition or an event or a program, and that'll be bringing a lot of it in. So we have a pretty extensive folder structure that we have utilizing OneDrive, where then we can have those image files, and then also corresponding documents that include the caption and credit information, if there's any restrictions how it can be used, how it can't be used, instead, then it's all you know, kind of clearly packaged, and then they can take it and when it's time to use it on social media in some way they can. Marketing Communications team can kind of take it and run with it. But yeah, it's it's a lot of work. And it's you know, even having something like a dams, it's still a lot to communicate, and that there's always things that, you know, are not there and trying to always remind people in training that just because it doesn't say something there, or it maybe it looks like does not mean that there is a lack of rights, it's just likely means that the research hasn't been done. And we haven't gotten to getting that data input into the system.

Unknown Speaker 37:10
On the website, should be okay to use for my team and to put on social media. So there is a team called data partner services, and they make sure that all the content incoming is in good quality correctly lightened. And according to our publishing framework, but for us to post on the website, we actually use the website. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 37:46
so I know that, like most of your museums, like especially you will, we have seen the Getty, but also Rapana have done a lot of engagement strategies with Dr. Words that are in the public domain. And we sort of know that social distancing is here to stay in a way. And at the very least, until the whole situation with COVID, get some sort of resolution. And so we know that it's around museums are now considering to invest more in their digital engagement strategies. So I have a question for all of you. And I would also love to know, the opinion of Alexander on this, because they have been doing several contests like give it up in the past. So what did that say exactly? These digital engagement strategies mean, for the legal department? And for the social media guidelines that you have, in general? How would this new investment on the strategies push the conversation for V use for social media strategies for fair use? Fair for?

Unknown Speaker 39:03
I would say, you know, to get a week, I have not. There has not really been yet any kind of dramatic shift or anything that has changed, you know, legally in terms of our approach or our, you know, my perception of our relationship with the platform's maybe on the margins, there have been some cases where I'm taking a more expansive view of fair use. But, you know, it's, it's been, it's really, you know, from a legal standpoint, I have not seen a lot of shift. I think it's much more on the content side and the and the sort of strategy side, like, what are the ways that we can engage the audience in a different way and what are some things that maybe didn't work so well in the past that are working better now? Annalisa and I were talking yesterday about like, are you no good, the whole getting museum challenge of the Make Your Own Um, you know, take three household objects and recreate a work of art, which, you know, pre COVID, I think that team would have been like, oh, that doesn't work challenges are never a good idea. They always kind of fall flat. But now everyone's trapped at home. And so it did. It did take off in a way we didn't expect, but I think we also see that, you know, Annalisa, and I were talking again, that, you know, people may start to burn out on screens. And, and so that's going to be enough that we may see a drop off in the use of social media as a way to engage, you know, it's just a lot of lot of content. A lot of people pushing a lot of content right now, and a lot of it's great, but it's just a lot.

Unknown Speaker 40:44

Unknown Speaker 40:48
but legally, you know, we haven't we haven't really changed our approach. Others may have.

Unknown Speaker 40:58
Yeah, we haven't really changed our approach too much, either at Newfields. Yeah, from the legal side. I

Unknown Speaker 41:04
mean, the copyright, copyright law hasn't changed the practices and requirements around that, you know, nothing, nothing has changed there. So still needing to function within those frameworks, and, you know, really falling back and relying on the policies and procedures we already have in place, and reminding people in their rush. You know, what we have seen that has been that huge push on the content side of what else can we get on social media? What can we get on our main website, and then, you know, promote on social media and push people back to the website, in different engagement. I think one of the biggest things that we've actually seen, that has been additional work for registering productions to review has been, What content do we have that's digitally based that was perhaps already exists, it was created, but when it was initially created, it was created for in gallery use only. And how can we repurpose that? How can we get that on social media? How can we get that on our website, and needing to sit back and go, whoa, whoa, we need to review all that again. Because either it includes content that was we had to license in order to get whatever pieces were part of whatever video or interactive that we created, that we had to license, or it was stuff that, you know, we were very comfortable setting, it was a fair use, because it was going to be in gallery only in a limited audience. And so needing to sit back and assess and review all of that content and see what we can get online. In some cases, you know, we have some things that we've been working on where, you know, we have very good relationships with some of the rights holders or different artists or photographers that it was okay, I think that they will understand what we're wanting to do here. And I doubt that they would charge us a licensing fee, but I just want to make sure that they're okay with changing this use that, you know, we had something that was very particular foreign gallery only what does this look like? Now, I mean, this online in some capacity. But yeah, so it's not so much that any of the processes has changed, you know, the legal requirements or anything have changed. But on the content side, and then seeing what does that meant for an increase in just some different workload and having to revisit past work for just different applications and uses.

Unknown Speaker 43:25
So we didn't change anything, but everything we do all of sudden became very relevant and very important. And we are trying to kind of be an example of how to do things online for the institutions in Europe. So we produce more content, maybe these days, we do more webinars, but workflows remained the same, we of course, try to do some stuff around the topics which are relevant, but things that like give it up with this way before and what I would like to say about that, which is interesting is not always the audience will understand immediately. So in gifted up, for example, which is a gift making contest, and that we organized every year in October, together with DPLA, digital concert and drove. We asked people to make gifts from openly licensed content, there are always some submissions coming, which are not openly license, but our choice is really to try to educate people. So everyone who sent a submission which is not correct, will get an email explaining what happened, why is there an alternative and they are invited, either to redo the GIF with openly licensed content, or to seek permission. So I think this should be also an element you think about it when you do activities. Is that actually? Will you reject something that is incorrect? If you have like contest or challenge? How will you deal with that?

Unknown Speaker 45:23
Ron, there are a lot of questions and comments around write statements on the site chart. So there's quite a lot of interest on write statements. So maybe that's like, something to consider for our next webinar. And I know that we're gonna have a lot of experience on Hades also, they're talking a lot about write statements. And I guess this is also kind of the biggest challenge as like Alexandra was saying around, like, educating your users on how to actually use some of this content. So like, Do you have any guidelines or strategies, where you help your users figure out how they can reuse the content that you're sharing?

Unknown Speaker 46:21
at the Getty, we, you know, we started our Open Content program back in 2013. And at the time, we decided this was before I joined the Getty and my predecessor in the legal counsels role. We, the Getty decided to, you know, sort of create a sort of custom set of terms of use, and put a lot of content on the website about open content and what you could do with it, and basically, anything you want. And, you know, we definitely have, you know, tried to be as clear as possible with that, over time, I think it's become clear that it's not, it's still not as findable as we would like, you know, and so we are, we are interested, we are looking to transition over to using a cc zero to make it more findable. We're not there yet. But, but we're getting there. Because I think, you know, in the, in the intervening seven years, you know, the Creative Commons licenses have gotten a lot more currency, more people understand them better, although there's still training to do around that. But I think, you know, the more we can use sort of a single set of internationally legible, machine readable terms, that's probably going to help our users, you know, and we're planning to do that in combination with the right statements. It is a challenge, you know, to sort of clearly and concisely communicate something that especially for a copyright geek like me, because it's often so nuanced. But, but, you know, and knowing sort of the reality that a lot of people don't actually read the fine print on things. Kind of still gives you a little bit of pause around CC licensing, you know, pictures of people, for example, even though the license itself will say very clearly, this is not about rights and piracy or publicity, you know, there might be other rights inherent in this picture. It's just a copyright, just the the users or the sort of person applying a license, just their copyright is implicated when you do that license. That's not something necessarily that everyone Yes.

Unknown Speaker 48:40
Yes, and I guess that like your comment on like, other rights that are not necessarily copyrighted, like, takes me to one of the other questions that we have prepared for today that I think it's worth briefly exploring. What is that it's also related to the challenge that the Getty the that is like, where are the other things that people might want to consider with the social media strategies and engagements that make user generated content that might have other rights underlying diagnosis? Not necessarily IP rights, for example, privacy issues? How do you deal with those?

Unknown Speaker 49:27
Ah, well, I would say with the Getty Museum challenge, you know, people were posting that stuff themselves again, we don't know necessarily that everyone who, whose Zin, one of those was that it was themselves, you know, they might have been posting pictures of other people. But again, it goes back to those those terms of use, you know, when the users posting to the platform they are they're taking the responsibility for saying that they've got the permissions and simply by posting it assuming you're posting a picture of yourself, you know, if your profile is public You know, you're publishing it and sort of really obviating privacy concerns, at least you know, for yourself, assuming everyone in the picture is, knows they're in the picture, and they're okay with, with it being shared like that. That being said, you know, we, we did whenever we wanted to, and Annalisa can jump in, we, we, we, whenever we wanted to feature one of those things were sort of retweeted or, you know, we would, we would always, you know, we actually went above and beyond the kind of seeking permission, making sure that those users were okay with us featuring it, promoting it. Even though you could, you could take the position, you know, that they've sort of consented to all of that just impliedly By participating in your challenges, and your hashtag, or, or whatever. So, you know, so we want to be respectful, I think of St. Notice in the comments, you know, sometimes you go, you ask for permission, even when legally, you might not need it, in some cases, just to maintain a good a good relationship with your stakeholders. But I didn't have any privacy concerns around that. And I felt very comfortable, again, that our team was was handling our followers and, and the participants really, respectfully. And when we when we promoted it, you know, we, we, we steered people towards our own open content, like that's what we were hoping people would use getting, we wanted people to engage with our collection, and we were pushing them to use the things that were not not restricted by copyright. Of course, a lot of people ended up doing stuff, you know, taking stuff from other museums, or, you know, maybe public domain from stuff from other museums that wasn't necessarily open content, you know, where the museum hadn't made it open, like the Louvre. Or maybe they were riffing on copyrighted works, right. So we, again, we kind of that's, again, between them and the platform. But certainly what you know, our hope we would never want to push our users to, to infringe anyone's copyright. But and, you know, we really wanted people to engage with with our open content. But we are careful to do that, like, whenever we're creating these tools, to really try to make sure people understand that, you know, they do need to be mindful of the intellectual property status of the stuff that they're posting online.

Unknown Speaker 52:21
Great. We have some questions here on the site chat, and we don't have a lot of time left, we only have seven minutes more left. And I'm gathering that he's having some connectivity issues, because I'm seeing her on and off just a little bit. But basically, someone is asking if there some of these things could be under the educational use umbrella? Could you like some of this sharing of content and engagement strategies be considered under the educational use umbrella?

Unknown Speaker 53:09
Okay, I will attempt to answer this and hopefully I stay connected here.

Unknown Speaker 53:24
Perfect gun good and stay connected.

Unknown Speaker 53:30
It's, you know, often, you know, so in the United States, you have things like the teacher, but if you even though a lot of the activities of a museum, or library might be very similar to the most and would be activities and things that would fall under the T check for remote learning and things. It can be tricky, because if you're not actually part of a university or school setting, then you know, it's it's really stretching that and having that interpretation. And I think it's important to remember, you know, just because it's educational as part of your mission, and you're not commercial, does that mean that it's fair use? Does it mean that it's something that you can proceed with without a license, so it's, it's a matter of risk management and making that assessment? I know, this really came up recently for us wanting to look at taking programming we have four children, that typically is on site and in person and reading children's stories and going, what does this look like if we want to turn this into a Facebook or Instagram Live series to have this engagement for with children for the to the museum? And if we read a book live, what is that? Well, that's a public performance and we need a license there. And so you know, really assessing what are we? What books are we using? and looking at, you know, some publishers have have granted broad licenses right now, given the current situation to allow public performances in these readings, but very specifically with it needs to be something that's not fully recorded. It's not something that is posted on YouTube or on your website and fully available that it needs to be a short one time, Instagram or Facebook Live type event where it will delete it after a certain period of time. And so looking at to utilize content and books from those particular publishers, or in some cases, there have been some specific, you know, children's authors that we've been looking at that has said, Yes, we're fine with this, during this period, and you know, to have engagement where people don't have access to the physical books or be able to meet and come in, in person. So yeah, it's it's a matter of making that assessment and how risk adverse or not your institution is.

Unknown Speaker 56:06
graded, so we only have three minutes left. I want to give space, if anyone has a question that you would like to ask to Alexandra, Nika, or anything else you would like to ask them hasn't been responded? Or any final comments? Mica or Alexandra wanna share?

Unknown Speaker 56:47
Just I want to say that, you know, there's a lot of talk in the air around, you know, what is the pandemic mean for copyright? And, you know, should we be making more exceptions and, and you may have remembered and been following this sort of thing about the Internet Archive and the National Emergency library and the sort of back and forth between the publishing brochures and Internet Archive. And I do want to caution, and also remember, there was a question that arose on the last call that you did, sort of about, you know, exhibition ID online exhibitions, that could maybe be done now that, you know, we're all stuck at home. And I want to just caution, you know, I, even though I am an open access proponent, and I definitely feel that it is important to be measured about and think about, what is it exactly about our change situation that might merit pushing boundaries of copyright, it's not, it's not just that we're, you know, it's not just that works are in another place, because that's always been true. And that, that we will be more sort of, you know, you'll have a stronger case for pushing the boundaries, if it's really, truly tied to the sort of facts. And that sort of unusual situation that we're in right now. You know, there are ways in which I think the National Emergency library, you know, I mean, the, the idea is laudable that it gave schools are really closed down, and there's kids who need books to learn, and they can't get to their libraries, you know, what can we do? I mean, the publishing community is responding to that, too. You know, there, there are things that should be done, I think, to address that, that need, but I don't think it necessarily means, you know, kind of all there's, there's a lot of, sort of all bets are off, you know, do what you want, for this limited period of time. And I don't think that's quite the right.

Unknown Speaker 58:44

Unknown Speaker 58:46
This is my personal opinion. So I would, I would caution people to think really carefully about like, what is it about this project that's made harder or impossible by our current situation? And not just the usual? Well, putting stuff online? It's hard. Right, it's hard getting permissions is hard. Or, you know, laborious.

Unknown Speaker 59:08
That's always been true. Yeah, I definitely a

Unknown Speaker 59:18
plus one on that Mica. That is absolutely true. And that, you know, while we are in this situation, and things that, you know, at the end of the day, the wall would or might be, you know, pushing some bounds and wanting to think about this, you know, to proceed cautiously because the laws themselves have not changed. And so also going, you know, how far do we pull this back that when things you know, are able to reopen and you know, what?

Unknown Speaker 59:57
Policies and procedures in place and Doing those risk assessments and looking looking at everything.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:22
Great, Alexandra, any last photo that you want to share?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:26
This pandemic is maybe a good moment to just think about the digital approaches, not necessarily draw things online, but kind of, you know, realize how many opportunities there are. And I guess in the future, of course, the museums reopen and everyone will love going there. But maybe the next step will be something that merges everything we learned about the engagement, and what people actually are able to do and want to do if they have time. And like a good contacts with physical visits. So I think actually figuring out not like pushing, but figuring out digital strategies. It's good activity for this time.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:16
Great, so we're already two minutes from or finish time, unfortunately, and drop from the call. So I'd have to send her an email, saying thank you. But I want to thank you again, mica, Alexandra, and Anne, for joining us today. I think this has been great. And I think that everyone here agrees that you did a great job in answering some of these questions. And please, I know that our Viana and Margaret were sharing their links to join the either the special interest group at the MTN or the corporate community in Europeana. And please, showing there we are going to continue having these conversations, look out for social media, or different social media channels to know when the next one is going to be held. And we definitely took note of having some sort of webinar around write statements. And again, thank you, and we'll make the transcript available. Thanks for joining.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:26
Thank you. Thank you.